Dwaldron924
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Advise for a broke college kid wanting a double hose

Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:38 pm

I've only been diving for about four years now and I got into diving after reading the book Shadow divers by Robert Kurson and talking to my dad who had been diving since the early 70s. I've always been a bit of a budget diver and have only bought new wetsuits, however I have about a 10 year old reg set and its great however I started getting interested in vintage diving after digging through my Dads gear and finding he was diving the U.S Divers reg his dad bought in the 60s and had a giant sea hawk knife. Now I've been interested in the Double hose for some time and have tracked one down local to me. The reg is a DA Royal Aqua master and is in overall fantastic condition with the acceptation that it hasn't been used in 10 years and the guy wants $195 which I think is a good deal however I have no idea what a general rebuild would cost. any and all advise would be great, in what I've read this is the regulator to get and is one of the best.

kworkman
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Re: Advise for a broke college kid wanting a double hose

Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:27 pm

Id offer 150. You're probably looking at around 150 also for new parts and rebuild kit. That doesnt cost labor if you decide to send it to Bryan.

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Herman
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Re: Advise for a broke college kid wanting a double hose

Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:29 pm

First off is it a DA Aquamaster (DAAM) or a Royal Aquamaster (RAM) , many folks don't know the difference. There is no such thing is as a DA Royal Aquamaster. All DAAMs (except the round label ones) have a gold crown sticker on them and some think that makes them a RAM...it does not.
A RAM will say "Royal Aquamaster" on it, with no "DA" anywhere on it. I $125-150 is kind of the going rate for a run of the mill RAM, there are a few exceptions, DAAMs are less $75-125 depending on how good it looks and who wants it.

A proper rebuild on them will be in the $150-250 range depending on what upgrades you decide to add. You WILL want new hoses, reguardless of how yours look and personally I would not rebuild one to dive often without a new mouthpiece. I don't like the old ones, even in good shape.

Then there are other things you are going to need. A back plate that is suited to DH use (no, your BC will not do), a tank with a J valve or a Banjo and SPG ( plus a long yoke if yours does not already have one).

removed bit about sticker....blew that one :)
Herman

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rhwestfall
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Re: Advise for a broke college kid wanting a double hose

Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:10 am

Not to derail this, but Herman, my '67 RAM was "crown stickered".... :?

To the OP, another consideration is to avoid the "early" RAMs (the "square label" mentioned by Herman), unless you are intending to dive the old low pressure tanks. I ended up going Cyclone/HPR on mine as I needed it for my 3000, 3300, & 3442 tanks and Bryan said there would likely be issues with using it on them. This will drive up your repair costs as you will be not only servicing, but updating. The regulator appeared to actually be functioning fine (excepting the duckbill melting/crystallizing issues) but it needed quite a bit more. Bryan was outstanding in guiding me through the process on rebuilding/updating 3 of my DH regs. Your best bet might be to get one from him or Rob that has been gone over, and complete condition is known. As Herman sid, the "Round Label" (later models) of the RAM may be better suited for your use on modern tanks.

Have fun!
Bob

No Longer Awaiting my Kraken.....

Dwaldron924
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Re: Advise for a broke college kid wanting a double hose

Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:21 am

The one I'm interested in is the gold crown with the square label, from what I read off this sight is that it is a 68-69 year run and i would plan to update it to be able to run 3000 psi and would consider putting a Phoenix on it. I also would send it to Brian since he is the only one I have heard of who repairs these.

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rhwestfall
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Re: Advise for a broke college kid wanting a double hose

Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:43 am

with adding the Phoenix, you might as well go HPR too, and get the best performance out of it that is possible, along with ease of service & tuning.

Your scope is likely these new items, paralleling what I did with a DA (I went DIN with mine though), but i suggest e-mailing Bryan as he is the one who knows best:

Phoenix
HPR
Diaphragm (the new material single stage diaphragm is preferred with the HPR)
Can Ring (if it is c-clipped, you want them off it)
Duckbill Eliminator
New Hoses
New Mouthpiece (no matter what you do, the old ones taste "yucky")
New Intake/Exhaust valves (re-use wagon wheels)
Do you need new Ties/Clamps for Mouthpiece & Hoses at can?

budget in for labor (let's say $100 for something simple to work with)

Price it out and figure in shipping each way.....

"Broke College Kid" and this endeavor seem diametrically opposed, but my "broke college kid" days might have been different....

As Herman said, you need to figure how you are going to wear it as the modern BC or a BP/W does not work very well with it. I use a VDH plate and a OxyCheque wing.

have fun!
Bob

No Longer Awaiting my Kraken.....

Dwaldron924
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Re: Advise for a broke college kid wanting a double hose

Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:59 am

sounds exactly like what I am looking for and will need, I already have a J valve tank that I had hydro tested last summer( had the tank in the family since the 70s). I plan to really budget this out, plan would be first to pick up the reg, then take time to save( summer job) then spend the money to have it rebuilt / upgraded to everything above mentioned. I don't dive much being in land locked Kansas so my gear unfortunately spends more time in storage then underwater. I usually go down to florida for a week each summer and do a few dives with the Dive locker in Panama City beach. like I said earlier it'll take me a little time of saving here and spending there to get this up to where I would like it, but I have my single hose to dive in the mean time. also where can I find Brian's email? i did not see it posted on the sight.

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rhwestfall
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Re: Advise for a broke college kid wanting a double hose

Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:08 am

if you are using j-valved tanks, and you have (or can get) a long yoke for your DH, then you could go with a Cyclone first stage rather than the Phoenix, use a banjo for an SPG (should you need one), and use the hookah port with an adapter & splitter for an octo & inflator (should you need them)....

that is how I have my RAM and another DAAM set up.

Bryan had an awesome deal on the Cyclone/HPR (not sure it is still available), and should be considered.
Bob

No Longer Awaiting my Kraken.....

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Bryan
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Re: Advise for a broke college kid wanting a double hose

Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:16 am

Hello Overland Park......I lived for years in your area..... 127th street, 135th and Nall, Merriam, 149th Terrace in Olathe. Miss the people but not the winter!!!

Let me know when you are ready and I'll get you fixed up. Welcome to Vintage Double Hose. You can get in touch with me by clicking on the CONTACT US link at the top of every page on the website.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

Dwaldron924
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Re: Advise for a broke college kid wanting a double hose

Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:19 am

The one I am looking at does not have the long yoke but if it would be more cost effective to go the route you mentioned than that would work a lot better and later down the road I could upgrade it even more since I plan to dive for years to come. If a long yoke is easily acquirable that would be great, this method sounds way easier and more attainable at the moment.

Dwaldron924
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Re: Advise for a broke college kid wanting a double hose

Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:22 am

Bryan wrote:Hello Overland Park......I lived for years in your area..... 127th street, 135th and Nall, Merriam, 149th Terrace in Olathe. Miss the people but not the winter!!!

Let me know when you are ready and I'll get you fixed up. Welcome to Vintage Double Hose. You can get in touch with me by clicking on the CONTACT US link at the top of every page on the website.

Thank you! I as well love the area but hate the winter and I know exactly where you used to live, the shop that has the reg I'm interested in is up in merium ks, ill be shooting you an email shortly.
Thanks
Dan

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Ron
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Re: Advise for a broke college kid wanting a double hose

Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:07 pm

Hey man, I just wanted to drop by and welcome you to the forum. Let us know if we can be of help to you. You have already received some good advice. If you ever get up to Seattle I'll go diving with you :)

Ron
The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed. -JYC

Dwaldron924
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First Name: Danny
Location: Overland Park KS

Re: Advise for a broke college kid wanting a double hose

Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:59 pm

one other question I have before venturing down this road is the BCD, I currently have a us divers bcd thats the vest stile and I also have a really minimalistic BCD that I think is a sherwood bcd, it looks like its a wing style with back pack straps on it. Now is the main issue with BCDs getting the reg down by the shoulder blades or are there other issues, this is honestly really the only concern I have from starting to build a double hose and actively dive one. If I need a different setup then what I have please tell me. I have the original U.S divers backplate that goes with my tank (seen jaws? I have the same silver U.S divers tank) that I have seen used with the double hose as originally intended however I really don't want to be that vintage

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Ron
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Re: Advise for a broke college kid wanting a double hose

Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:06 pm

I am about to blather my opinion at you, so take it for what it's worth:


I think jacket BCDs are not that great really in any fashion, and I say that as a scuba instructor. They are built for comfort, but not for speed as the saying goes. If you want one BCD that can do everything, then build a backplate and wing (BPW) with one of the VDH backplates:

http://vintagedoublehose.com/store/#!/V ... ry=1874499

With a good BPW, you can dive double hose, single tanks, and doubles. Really, by swapping a wing or a plate, you can dive anything that you could possibly ever want to dive. Outside of BCDs approved for Navy use (Zeagle Ranger, etc), there are not many conventional BCDs that can do that. There is a wealth of information on this site pertaining to just that in the modern double hose diving section. You will probably read about BPW double hose diving there until your legs fall asleep in your chair.

Also, this is totally doable as a college student. Years ago, when I was living off of my GI Bill and in grad school, I was still scraping together ways to dive double hose. Just keep in mind that, like climbing, hiking, shooting sports, and many other things, you have to know where you can go cheap and where you cannot. There is also plenty of advice on that here on the forum as well. Don't buy something cheap and rotten on Ebay without doing some basic intelligence gathering about said gear. Just because it was made in the 60s doesn't mean it was good. :lol:
The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed. -JYC

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8dust
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Re: Advise for a broke college kid wanting a double hose

Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:28 am

Lots of suggestions on how to spend money, but that didn't sound like where you're coming from...

Have Bryan rebuild your 1st stage and then install an HPR while he has it. The RAM 1st stage is great, no need to replace unless damaged. If he thinks it's damaged, then have him install a Cyclone. The RAM's original 2nd stage, IMO, is the weak link, so definately go for an HPR. It's worlds better and fewer headaches in my experience. Once he's got it working nice, have him put on clamp ring and throw all new rubber in the box. When you get it back, take the reg, tank, mask & fins to a pool and play with it until you get comfortable with the reg and your buoyancy . More gear than that, you don't need... that's kinda the point of vintage equipment diving... less to get between you and the experience, less to fail, and notably less to spend money on. Oh, and it's cool as hell too... You can impress the girls with how much less shit you need.

After you've gotten a job and made a couple years worth of student loan payments, you can invest in a Kracken with all the bells and whistles and take up cave diving and UW photography. For now, just get your RAM working and appreciate the Zen of less-is-more. It will suit your budget, and make you a better person.

BTW, you and your Pop should plan to come to one of our group outtings, or at the very least hookup with a couple of the other board members reasonably close by. They're all over the darn place. Great group of people. Welcome aboard!
Freddo
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