MikeAlan
Lung Diver
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:36 am
First Name: Mike
Location: San Diego CA

New...old guy

Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:57 am

Hello everybody,
My name is Mike, and at 57 find myself finally able (with time, more than money) to get into scuba diving. Various stuff had always happened that caused me to delay it.
At least I want to see if I can do it, after realizing that over the years, I have developed a bit of claustrophobia. Not exactly my first choice of a thing to have, as a potential diver. I didn't notice it as a baby watching Sea Hunt while swimming on the floor. But old Mike Nelson inspired me and I've always wanted to dive since seeing him and that show.
As a bonus, I had an uncle who was a Navy diver, and another hero of mine.
Enough about me.

What I am doing is slowly, and I hope carefully, getting some gear together, just in case I can actually complete a course and get certified.
Honestly I enjoy working on this cool old stuff a lot, maybe more than I will enjoy using it. I've always enjoyed working on stuff and made a living doing that, in various forms, for most of my life.

First thing was discovering VDH and realizing maybe I wouldn't have to look like an alien with all the new (to me) gear and scary looking setups commonly used these days. I'd definitely want to do it vintage style.

I bought a kit for a RAM here, some parts from Rob, and have a harness coming from Allan. All really great guys, from what I have experienced. Upon receipt of an IP gauge I recently ordered so I can do the adjustments, hope to have my first self-restored double hose regulator. Bryan is, as you know, very helpful and patient with us new guys. He suggested I ask my question to the forum here, when I emailed him asking about seals I need to restore an older USD J-valve.

The way I understand it by looking through manuals and parts breakdowns, and I could be wrong here, is they made changes in the seals used over the years. I can't seem to find a kit - or even individual pieces, I need for my particular J-valve.

I took a a couple of pictures of my valve disassembled, which I hope to be able to attach here when I'm done typing this.
I am hoping somebody could help by pointing to a link or source where I can buy these.

Any ideas or advice is welcome. I appreciate your experience and willingness to share your accumulated knowledge in a field that likely would have been abandoned many years ago if not for you all, who want to preserve the coolness and simple elegance of vintage diving.

Thanks,
Mike
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ScubaLawyer
Master Diver
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:25 am
First Name: Mark
Location: Laguna Beach, CA

Re: New...old guy

Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:12 pm

Hi Mike,

I've rebuilt a few J-valves and twin manifolds. If you Google "o-ring kits scuba" you will find a number of suppliers. The o-rings in the USD valve are all standard sizes you will find in those kits of assorted rings. Also look in the section on valve parts in the VDH store on this website. Bryan should have your teflon (nylon?) ring as well as a number of standard rubber o-rings such as for the 3/4 inch tank neck and the yoke attachment. There may be an o-ring size chart in the manuals section as well. If not just Google a size chart and print it out. You can lay your old rings on top and get the exact size number you need to search for. Good luck. Mark.
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

MikeAlan
Lung Diver
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:36 am
First Name: Mike
Location: San Diego CA

Re: New...old guy

Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:03 pm

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the info. I'll check it out.
The amount of information I can gather from your reply is fantastic.
Thanks!
Mike

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ScubaLawyer
Master Diver
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:25 am
First Name: Mark
Location: Laguna Beach, CA

Re: New...old guy

Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:24 pm

MikeAlan wrote:Hi Mark,
Thanks for the info. I'll check it out.
The amount of information I can gather from your reply is fantastic.
Thanks!
Mike
Your welcome. There are many other folks here who know far more about this stuff than I do. Glad I could start you on the right track. Oh, and welcome to the Board. Mark.
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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antique diver
Master Diver
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Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:50 pm
First Name: Bill
Location: North-Central Texas

Re: New...old guy

Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:21 pm

The two pieces that you show together consist of one oring and one backup ring. The oring is a standard size #015, and should be readily available from Bryan at VDH, along with most of the other parts you may need.

The backup ring is harder material (but still flexible) with a slightly cupped shape on one side to help retain the oring and keep it from extruding or being damaged. Bryan may also have the backup ring, then you could get everything you need at one place.

If you can't find a backup ring I have a few still around. Email me if you need something for your valve that VDH doesn't have.

Enjoy your new adventure in diving!
The older I get the better I was.

MikeAlan
Lung Diver
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:36 am
First Name: Mike
Location: San Diego CA

Re: New...old guy

Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:51 am

antique diver wrote:The two pieces that you show together consist of one oring and one backup ring. The oring is a standard size #015, and should be readily available from Bryan at VDH, along with most of the other parts you may need.

The backup ring is harder material (but still flexible) with a slightly cupped shape on one side to help retain the oring and keep it from extruding or being damaged. Bryan may also have the backup ring, then you could get everything you need at one place.

If you can't find a backup ring I have a few still around. Email me if you need something for your valve that VDH doesn't have.

Enjoy your new adventure in diving!
Thanks a lot for that information. I believe you nailed it, as it looks exactly as you said. I'll got back to the store here and see.

I think one of my problems is, in my searching for info, I downloaded two manuals. One from here, which applies to metal handled valves, and one that says "Aqua Lung Authorized Technician Technical Maintenance Manual, J, K, Z and twin manifold Valves" on the cover and appears to be newer. Each manual shows different parts and numbers. Not only that, but my valve seems to have parts from both.

I think I almost have it now...Do you happen to know the size o-ring (in the reserve pic I posted), that goes on the "stem"? (Manuals say 8200-10.)

Here is (maybe) a better question: Is the size information for the seals included in the part numbers listed in the manuals? Maybe I missed that, if it is, and maybe could make this easier.

I appreciate this forum, the friendly welcome and helpful attitudes, and I'm sure I'll have many many other questions. I promise to always "search" before posting...I understand how repeating yourself is no fun.

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Herman
VDH Moderator
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Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:45 pm
Location: Raleigh NC

Re: New...old guy

Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:55 am

I'm not much with valves but something to keep in mind when looking for orings. Not only is size important but so is durometer (hardness). Values of 70 (softer) and 90 (harder) are commonly used in scuba gear. Most of the time, when there is a high pressure differential (like in a tank valve) 90s are used.

Don't worry about repeat questions, often times there are others wondering the same thing but just don't ask.
Herman

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antique diver
Master Diver
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Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:50 pm
First Name: Bill
Location: North-Central Texas

Re: New...old guy

Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:01 am

Luckily for us, the "standard" industrial sizing for orings is hidden in the actual part number on most of the USD schematics. For example, the 8200-10 is a standard oring size that can be determined from the last three digits of the part number: 8200-10 simply becomes "-010", which is a standard oring size!

Instead of designing equipment to require a special oring to be made, it seems that most of the time the design is made to utilize standard size seals, bearings and orings. Not all manufacturers are so helpful in providing the standard numbers.

Happy Divin'
The older I get the better I was.

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captain
Plank Owner
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:32 am
Location: LaPlace, LA

Re: New...old guy

Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:39 am

You have to be sure the rebuild kit is correct for the valve. USD made a design change in the hand wheel stem and seals. The older valves used only the teflon seal but newer valves used a teflon seal and O ring and also a different stem and bonnet nut. They are not compatible, to use the newer seal setup you must use the newer stem and nut.

Missing in the picture of the J side is a small metal washer that fits over the J vale stem. It could be missing or stuck inside the bonnet nut.
Captain

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8dust
Master Diver
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:39 am
Location: Nashville's North Shore

Re: New...old guy

Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:47 pm

Welcome Aboard, Mike! :D Nice to have you here.
Freddo
NAVED member #201

MikeAlan
Lung Diver
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:36 am
First Name: Mike
Location: San Diego CA

Re: New...old guy

Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:03 pm

Thank you everybody for the information, and the friendly welcome.

I have searched but cannot seem to locate the info I need as far as the adjustment of the IP on this RAM I have just assembled with a kit from Bryan. I found a link on this website for a gauge, which I bought from LeisurePro,
http://www.leisurepro.com/p-aqutpcp/int ... ct-fitting

Now I need to know what I need to connect this to my reg, where to connect it and how to use it.
I apologize in advance for having to ask this, because I KNOW the answer is already here, somewhere, but I just cannot find it. :oops:

Thanks for your time.
Mike

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Bryan
Plank Owner
Posts: 5279
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:40 am
First Name: Bryan
Location: Wesley Chapel Florida
Contact: Website

Re: New...old guy

Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:29 pm

Connect your lp hose to the hookah port on your regulator using a hookah port adapter found in the website store. This is also very handy for attaching a safe 2nd stage or using the hose for your bcd etc.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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Herman
VDH Moderator
Posts: 1315
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:45 pm
Location: Raleigh NC

Re: New...old guy

Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:45 pm

You will need this adapter http://vintagedoublehose.com/store/#!/H ... /p/8417148 and a LP inflator hose. The parts are connected together and then connected to the hookah port on the RAM. The IP is somewhat a matter of personal choice, the manual (the one I have ) says 115 +/- 5 psi but I set mine to 135 psi. Why 135? because everything else I have is set to that so it makes keeping up with what it should be set for simple and also allows me to swap any second stages that I may be using around with any first stage. 135 is fine with the original second stage but work very well with the HPR second stage.
I have a PDF copy of the RAM service manual. If you would like a copy, shoot me a PM with out email address and I will send you one.....

Bryan, maybe I missed it but I don't see it in the manuals section, be happy to send you a copy as well.
Herman

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Bryan
Plank Owner
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:40 am
First Name: Bryan
Location: Wesley Chapel Florida
Contact: Website

Re: New...old guy

Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:38 pm

Its in the main US Divers repair manual along with the DA, Mistral all the early single hoses, valves, spearguns.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/ftdkxzh8ocedn ... l.pdf?dl=0
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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Herman
VDH Moderator
Posts: 1315
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:45 pm
Location: Raleigh NC

Re: New...old guy

Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:51 pm

I have an separate manual that shows the later HP yoke model and includes a description of operation, full assembly instruction, troubleshooting and parts breakdown.
Herman

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