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luis
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Re: Titan II and Trieste regulator questions?

Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:31 pm

Creed,
That must be a very early HPR. The lever is bent in the wrong place. If you notice in your picture, the lever is touching the body. When the lever has the correct shape, the lever feet only touches the surface of the washers.

I designed a special tool so that Bryan could consistently shape the levers.

If you would like to send me the lever, I will be glad to reshape it for you.

The Delrin Pegasus type body also looks like it is an early one. I changed the depth of the lever retainer to make certain that the lever it always captured.
Luis

Buceador con escafandra autónoma clásica.

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Creed
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Re: Titan II and Trieste regulator questions?

Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:06 pm

It was an early example of the HPR that I haven't gotten around to installing yet. I'll pm you about sending it in.
I didn't know much about the Delrin piece. I included it more for completeness.

Edit: Luis, could it be that there is no pressure on the lever? I just screwed it on to a DAAM body I had handy for the picture. The lever is just hanging there, with no tension from the poppet spring to keep it upright.
"Haul the sheet in as we ride on the wind that our
forefathers harnessed before us
Hear the bells ring as the tide rigging sings.
It's a son of a gun of a chorus" - Jimmy Buffet

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Bronze06
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Re: Titan II and Trieste regulator questions?

Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:23 pm

Hey Creed,

Thanks for the pictures. I had a sense of deja vu looking at them, though I am ten years too late. I have already purchased another Titan as well as another Trieste and will proceed to "Spectre-ize" the Titan soon. I like to keep the Trieste's in original form and have found that for me, they breath very well if tweaked just right. Thanks all for this very interesting input and experience. Yes Luis, I will attempt to tempt the Voit Scuba Gods again with gentle BRUTE FORCING of yet another HPR. Keep your fingers crossed.
"Where'd ya get that ol' thang, don't cha' know them thare things ill kill ya!"

Live From the Red Sea,

Russ

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Herman
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Re: Titan II and Trieste regulator questions?

Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:18 pm

Creed wrote:It was an early example of the HPR that I haven't gotten around to installing yet. I'll pm you about sending it in.
I didn't know much about the Delrin piece. I included it more for completeness.

Edit: Luis, could it be that there is no pressure on the lever? I just screwed it on to a DAAM body I had handy for the picture. The lever is just hanging there, with no tension from the poppet spring to keep it upright.
If the delrin piece was one I made (looks like it), it was a prototype that I did for measurments, machining testing and functional test. I made a number of them when we began the Pegasus project. Delrin is easier to machine and a lot cheaper than brass, so I made those, basically to learn how.. That said, they may work fine, I don't know if Luis ever tried one for anything other than testing.
Herman

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Creed
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Re: Titan II and Trieste regulator questions?

Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:52 pm

Bronze06,
Have you looked into the possibility of using a helicoil style insert? I don't know that anyone makes a size that would work, but it seems to me that the process would be more robust over time if you can go this route.
"Haul the sheet in as we ride on the wind that our
forefathers harnessed before us
Hear the bells ring as the tide rigging sings.
It's a son of a gun of a chorus" - Jimmy Buffet

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Bronze06
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Re: Titan II and Trieste regulator questions?

Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:55 pm

Creed wrote:Bronze06,
Have you looked into the possibility of using a helicoil style insert? I don't know that anyone makes a size that would work, but it seems to me that the process would be more robust over time if you can go this route.
I thought about something like that initially, but in hind-sight I would have to remove material from the main body or the HPR in order to accommodate the HPR body width. I have found it is just plan easier to lube up both the HPR and main body and gently FORCE the HPR into the main body a bit at a time. The main body being denser retains its original thread pitch and the HPR is cold pressed into the correct pitch with no apparent thread issues afterward. This needs to be done a little at a time and not just jammed in at one fell swoop. I've had two Titans converted using this method and both worked out well. Luis and Herman have both pointed out that the thread pitch difference between the HPR and the main body are just slightly different and would not necessarily cause any undue problems and they are correct. I just go gently and eventually you will get a full seating of the HPR into the main body. The end product is robust and stable with no damage to the HPR or body. The HPR has just been slightly adjusted (cold pressed) for a different thread pitch that's all.
"Where'd ya get that ol' thang, don't cha' know them thare things ill kill ya!"

Live From the Red Sea,

Russ

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luis
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Re: Titan II and Trieste regulator questions?

Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:51 pm

Bronze06 wrote: Luis and Herman have both pointed out that the thread pitch difference between the HPR and the main body are just slightly different and would not necessarily cause any undue problems and they are correct.
That is not what I said. I think you are also miss-quoting Herman, but I don’t want to speak for him.

All I said is that the pressure thrust (pressure force) is very low.

I do not recommend deforming threads. Brass tends to be a very forgiving material, but deforming threads is never good practice. Brass is a very ductile material, but you are still taking the risk of damaging both parts.

The thread pitch is 27 TPI vs 24 TPI; that is over 12% difference. That is not "just slightly different".

Some of the damage may not be immediately obvious. For example: if you screw-up the alignment (causing a slight tilt), the seat will probably still create a good seal, but it may require more force than necessary and add to the seat imprint.

I realize that this is the internet, but just because you were successful (due to either skill or luck), I would be careful about recommending to others to try deforming parts without some warnings.

Any modifications of this type you do at your own risk.
YMMV
Luis

Buceador con escafandra autónoma clásica.

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Creed
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Re: Titan II and Trieste regulator questions?

Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:54 pm

Bronze06 wrote: I thought about something like that initially, but in hind-sight I would have to remove material from the main body or the HPR in order to accommodate the HPR body width.
True, but you are already deforming threads, so it's a no-return modification. If an appropriate insert exists, it could become a very trivial operation to hand bore the LP assembly area of a Titan and insert a sleeve to allow for a permanent HPR addition.
"Haul the sheet in as we ride on the wind that our
forefathers harnessed before us
Hear the bells ring as the tide rigging sings.
It's a son of a gun of a chorus" - Jimmy Buffet

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Bronze06
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Re: Titan II and Trieste regulator questions?

Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:22 pm

luis wrote:
Bronze06 wrote: Luis and Herman have both pointed out that the thread pitch difference between the HPR and the main body are just slightly different and would not necessarily cause any undue problems and they are correct.
That is not what I said. I think you are also miss-quoting Herman, but I don’t want to speak for him.

All I said is that the pressure thrust (pressure force) is very low.

I do not recommend deforming threads. Brass tends to be a very forgiving material, but deforming threads is never good practice. Brass is a very ductile material, but you are still taking the risk of damaging both parts.

The thread pitch is 27 TPI vs 24 TPI; that is over 12% difference. That is not "just slightly different".

Some of the damage may not be immediately obvious. For example: if you screw-up the alignment (causing a slight tilt), the seat will probably still create a good seal, but it may require more force than necessary and add to the seat imprint.

I realize that this is the internet, but just because you were successful (due to either skill or luck), I would be careful about recommending to others to try deforming parts without some warnings.

Any modifications of this type you do at your own risk.
YMMV

Sorry for the misquote Luis, you are correct.

I guess I was trying to paraphrase both you and Herman. I Would not recommend this as a standard procedure for just anyone. As with all things in life, there is risk and I remake these rigs preforming IP/Pool safety tests and trust in my own judgement as to whether I would dive a rig or not. As we say in the Airborne, "When you jump, it's just you!" By the by, I checked the 27TPI interior of both reg bodies and it is using a 27TPI interior/exterior pitch gage from our weapons shop here and they are still 27TPI, using the exterior on the HPR came up the same with no binding, so it would appear that the cold press worked on both HPRs THIS TIME. As you stated, pressure thrust is low on this component, therefore I am not worried about it. This is the last time I will do this to a Titan, as I am moving on to a Sportsways "Hydro Twin II" rebuild for my next magical trick.

Again, my apologies, Russ
"Where'd ya get that ol' thang, don't cha' know them thare things ill kill ya!"

Live From the Red Sea,

Russ

CrabbyJim
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Re: Titan II and Trieste regulator questions?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:21 pm

My question is about the factory lp and lp ports. They are on the right side (starboard) so is there a bc or horsecollar you can use it with other than the USD horsecollar?

Thanks,
Crabby Jim

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Re: Titan II and Trieste regulator questions?

Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:19 pm

I've been working for the last couple years off and on but more off at redesigning my Trieste to work better. I've come up with something great I think. My problem is I need a newer diaphragm. I need to know if the Trieste body is the same size as the MR-12 and if so can I use one of Bryan's Mares Abyss diaphrags that will work in a Voit MR-12 in the second stage of my Trieste? I tried making a homemade diaphragm but I'm not great at it.
Someone told me that diving a double hose reg will kill me. I had no idea these things were dangerous.

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Greg Barlow
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Re: Titan II and Trieste regulator questions?

Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:35 pm

No, the diaphragms are not interchangeable. The Mares Abyss model fits all of the single hose models produced from 1968 and later. The Trieste diaphragm is not compatible with any other models.
Greg Barlow
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