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luis
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Re: DSV Mouthpiece___Mouthpiece Options?

Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:50 pm

refrat wrote:
Curious also about the hose weights I see Luis using, are these or something else going to be available to counteract any increased DSV buoyancy?
Thanks and looking forward to the roll-out!
There is no increase DSV/ mouthpiece buoyancy.

The reason for the hose weights is because the replaceable mouthpieces shown above (or any other for that matter) are longer than the mouthpiece incorporated in the vintage style curve or hour glass (Voit) mouthpieces. When you have a replaceable bite, it need space for the tie-wrap and some extra clearance so that your lips are not on the plastic tie-wrap.

The extra length required for the replaceable bite generates a bit of a moment-arm, that combined with the existing hose buoyancy, it twist up on your bite.

The buoyancy was always there, it just wasn’t as noticeable with the mouthpiece tube close to your lips.

The hose weight will compensate for the existing buoyancy and will add a lot of side benefits in comfort and move the hoses down a bit out of your peripheral view.

I measured the volume and buoyancy of the hoses, but I can’t find the thread and the post where I wrote about it. :?

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=8096&start=30
Luis

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uwstlth
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Re: DSV Mouthpiece___Mouthpiece Options?

Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:55 pm

This may or may not be relevant... one thing almost all DSVs in the rebreather world have in common is the ability to "twist" either or both hoses while underwater/ pressure while it's in your face (mouth actually). This is accomplished by sealing surfaces and orings which can be loosened or tightened at will without water egress. The main reason for this is comfort of the biting surfaces as well as to relieve pressure in your mouth from the balance of the DSV as it hangs out away from your face. I think I have a pretty good idea of how this DSV is designed and will be opened/ closed without a lever but unclear how the actual hoses are attached. That is, are they fixed in place with zip ties or worm gear clamps or are they adjustable UW with a locking mechanism around the hose that cinches it down... No need to explain the VDH DSV details as I'm sure there is secrecy about the plans but just a 2-cents worth from a diver who dives with a DSV regularly; this is a VERY desirable option to have on a DSV mouthpiece.

As far as the hose weights go, RB divers only use them on their hoses, some have what is called a BOV (Bail Out Valve) attached to their DSV to switch to open circuit (AIR SCUBA) in an emergency without removing the DSV; that "may" compensate for any positive buoyancy issues from the air trapped within the DSV. I'm not too sure as I don't dive with a BOV... they are far too bulky and cumbersome for my needs.

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Bryan
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Re: New DSV Mouthpiece Coming soon!

Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:07 pm

Image

At Scuba Club Cozumel. ..let the fun begin!

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Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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Bryan
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Re: New DSV Mouthpiece Coming soon!

Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:22 am

Mouthpiece was a stellar performer with several divers giving it a thorough testing. .......Luis and I have a few minor details to finish up and I have a conference call with the mold maker later today.

With the extra features Luis has added I think that crowd funding will be necessary to get this one up and running and out to you divers as quickly as possible. For the Argonaut I used Fundable and it worked great but I had to give them a cut of the money I raised and pay 6% on the funds transfer. This time I plan on doing it all internal on VDH and will make the new DSV mouthpiece available for advance orders to X number of divers to cover the large cost of mold production and raw materials. ........Stay tuned for details as I'll make the outline of the pre-orders available in PDF form and then put it in the store for advanced purchase......I'll have the exact cost later today after my call but I think it will stay around $80.00.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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Dave2
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Re: New DSV Mouthpiece Coming soon!

Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:35 am

I'm in.

bbain
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Re: New DSV Mouthpiece Coming soon!

Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:42 am

Moi aussi! (Me too!)

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rhwestfall
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Re: New DSV Mouthpiece Coming soon!

Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:01 pm

Watching anxiously.

I am "off the grid" over a period during the next two weeks... hope I don't miss the funding launch....
Bob

No Longer Awaiting my Kraken.....

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Bryan
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Re: New DSV Mouthpiece Coming soon!

Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:13 pm

Here are a few photos of the 3D models we used in Cozumel. Luis is still in route so please give him a few days to catch up and explain in detail some of the unique design features of the mouthpiece. Here are a couple of basic highlights

1. Use your own mouthpiece
2. Shut your hose loop off at the surface
3. You can purge it before opening it again
4. Internal flow diverter enhances the regulators venturi and virtually eliminates air bypass into the exhaust side......Luis will expand on this in detail I'm sure but try as we might we could not "overbreathe" any of the Argonaut regulators we dived with using the new DSV.

I will have a crowdfunding project available to everyone on November 27th in the VDH website store.
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Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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simonbeans
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Re: New DSV Mouthpiece Coming soon!

Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:24 pm

Image

Image
Check out my website: www.vintagescubastuff.com

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couv
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Re: New DSV Mouthpiece Coming soon!

Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:27 pm

I don't want to jump in and say too much before Luis has a chance to update; but I thoroughly enjoyed being one of the test dummies. The DSV was comfortable, dry, and worked as advertised........ Thank you.
A sincere THANK YOU to all at VDH who make this wonderful resource available and to all the thoughtful contributors.

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Bryan
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Re: New DSV Mouthpiece Coming soon!

Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:16 pm

The DSV in the pictures above are 3D models and start out as a powder. The finish is not perfectly smooth and white is the standard color the shop has for models. The production DSV will be black and made from the same material as the Argonaut Kraken cans with a smooth shiny finish.

Here are the prices for "similar" basic DSV mouthpieces used in the rebreather community.

Golem $310.00, Revo $300.89, Dive Matics $375.00, KISS standard $500.00, Innerspace $500.00

I purchased and used both the Revo and KISS DSV and neither are as comfortable in the water as the Argonaut DSV. The MAJOR difference is the diverter Luis designed to enhance and direct the venturi flow of the 2nd stage....This is a real game changer for double hose divers and is an immediate and very noticeable improvement you will enjoy from your 1st dive with it..........And the diverter is easily removable so there may some appeal to the rebreather divers who like customizing their own gear... 8)
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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luis
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Re: New DSV Mouthpiece Coming soon!

Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:53 pm

I just got back (late last night) from Cozumel and it will be a few days before I can catch up, but here are a few advance comments on the new DSV design.

The DSV function work better than expected. The closing feature had a perfect seal and kept the hose loop and regulator perfectly dry.

I took three Argonauts to Cozumel that were used by many divers and at the end of the 10 days of diving the inside of all three was drier than I have ever seen any double hose in this conditions.


The mouthpiece bite and amount of weight needed seems like it may become a bit of a personal choice. We will expand more on this later and I do have some general recommendations, but some of this (human interface) is always a bit of a personal choice. We all know that the MP bite is a personal preference, but the optimal amount of hose weight and balance may also become somewhat of a personal preference.



The flow diverter is going to be the big subject and big performance improvement.

The simplest explanation of the flow diverter is that it will allow to take advantage of the highest venturi flow provided by the Argonaut.

The Argonaut has the design potential of providing much higher venturi flow than any other DH regulator, but this excess venturi flow could not be used with a standard mouthpiece. Those who have blocked too much of the bleed air ports on the second stage know what I am talking about. With a conventional mouthpiece, when you induce too much venturi flow (by blocking the side vent holes of the second stage) you get such a strong flow that during inhalation a lot of the air blows-by the mouthpiece and goes out the exhaust.

The flow diverter allows maximum venturi assist without any blow-by, wasted air.

The flow diverter does not create an over pressure or positive pressure breathing regulator. It also does not behave like the strong venturi found in some of the single hose regulators (like the Poseidon Extreme) that feels like it is force feeding you air. The venturi jet is in the back does not shoot an air stream down your throat. The flow diverter creates a very natural breathing regulator that feels comfortable to most.

Once the flow is initiated the vacuum required to maintain flow is minimal. This vacuum stays extremely low at any flow rate. Several divers have tried hard to over breath it and they could not. They did not notice any flow resistance once the flow is imitated.

It also works well at any depth. I tested it last week at 145 ft.

At first impression, most of the experienced double hose divers that tried it last week felt it was a very good performance, but nothing superlative. “It felt good, but normal” was the feedback I got. I am not surplice , because it feels like normal breathing. It really shines when you work hard a need extra flow.

During normal breathing, it performers better than any DH I have ever tried, but the difference is more subtle.

The more important feedback I received was from the single hose divers that have never tried a double hose and some were relatively new to diving. They all felt it was a very good breathing regulator, some tried it more than once and at least one of them would like to get one. I don’t normally get such a positive feedback from this type of diver. Double hose regulator diving seem to be an acquired taste.

There is a lot more to the design that I will explain when I have more time.

The week before I left for Cozumel I had a small disaster (involving blown in insulation) in my house and although most of it has been cleaned (by a subcontractor), I still have a lot of work reorganizing, etc. I will post some pictures on a separate thread. Here is the thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8500&p=68780#p68780
Luis

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Bryan
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Re: New DSV Mouthpiece Coming soon!

Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:29 am

Video clips of Luis and I diving the new DSV in Cozumel last week. On the yellow hoses you can see how spacing out the weights levels the hoses offsets the buoyancy. In the 2nd clip I'm trying out my new idea for the heavy hose assembly with the nylon covers. There are weights on the hoses under the covers and I was experimenting with how many and what position was most comfortable.....
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrWv4PD ... e=youtu.be[/video]
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

Beatlejuice
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Re: New DSV Mouthpiece Coming soon!

Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:40 am

Hey Guys!

I'm very interested in pre-ordering the DSV. I have 2 questions regarding hose weights. First, I'd like to confirm that the $2 price is for one weight. Second, do you have a recommendation on how many weights one should order to experiment with? I realize this is gonna be a personal preference thing, but I'd hate purchase two, get in the water only to realize that I need another two (or more) and then place another order and wait for that.... you see what I'm getting at.

-Andy

stephenws
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Re: New DSV Mouthpiece Coming soon!

Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:12 pm

I would like to view the videos that Bryan posted today regarding the new DSV, but it asks me to "sign in". I'm logged in to the forum, but apparently there is another sign-in that I'm not aware of. Please help?

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