swimjim
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:20 pm

Well, there has been many accounts of using the new back plate with HPR Phoenix. That's a great combination and it works very well. The other day I picked up a few regs from Bernie Blooms widow that he used raising the Alvin Clark. That's a whole 'nother story.
One of these regs was a Dacor Diving Lung. I've owned 4 of these over the years and they just aren't very good regs. I put some clean USD hoses on this one and tried it one the bench. Not bad.... Hmmmm. I disassembled the reg and cleaned it up. Upon reassembly, I tried again. Back to typical Dial A Death standards. Undaunted, I tweaked this and that and came up with a reg that breathed half way decent. Not a Mistral mind you, but it would hold it's own with a DA Navy.
So, I'm thinking with the new back plate that will keep the reg in the perfect position, this might work. I mounted the back plate and my Trek wing on a 72 and dove wet in the balmy 42 degree Lake Michigan waters today. The dive was only about 20 minutes, but the Dacor with USD hoses acquitted itself admirably. Could I over breath it? Yes. Under "normal" conditions however, it worked just fine operating at a depth at around 35 feet.
If the back plate can make this Dacor Diving Lung Rock, it can do most anything!

Jim

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leicamshooter
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First Name: Gonzalo
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:02 am

Well I asked Bryan but he wasn't sure... Has anybody tried using twin tanks on this plate. And if so, how did you go about setting it up. I'm interested in using my twin 45's on this plate... which I'm currently using with the Penutking bands and an Alan vintage harness.

I like the idea of using the Penutking bands on this plate, with my 45's, but just wonder what the best way is to attach them to the plate?

Regards
Gonzalo

swimjim
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:31 pm

Just a guess, but you'd almost have to do carriage bolts to attach the bands to the back plate. That way the head of the bolt would be near flush on the plate and would not stab you in the back.

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Nemrod
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:16 pm

swimjim wrote:Just a guess, but you'd almost have to do carriage bolts to attach the bands to the back plate. That way the head of the bolt would be near flush on the plate and would not stab you in the back.
Another way to do this or similar things is to go to Ace Hardware and get stainless 1/4 Tee nuts. The kind with the drive holes and no teeth. The ones with teeth are for wood, the ones with drive holes are excellent for metal applications. These essentially set flush and will not rub a hole in your suit. The carriage bolt or threaded rod would thread into them. You can use thread locker or a lock nut.

The Tee nuts can also be used similar sex bolts but are more low profile. Oh, once you have the Tee nuts in place you can squeeze them with a vice grip to slightly flatten them. This prevents them from falling out during assembly etc and it acts as a lock mechanism.

I just got my plate, after seeing all the guys at Cozumel with them. Hmmm, going to have to change up some things. I really like the concept.

Edit----look below, somebody thinks they are clever :lol: . The delievery guy was looking very oddly at the package. Dang, I took a pic too but the Boss beat me to it, dang :shock: .

Nem

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Bryan
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:53 pm

Nemrod even got his plate with a custom box celebrating his favorite Florida dive buddy..... :lol: :lol:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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Nemrod
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:52 pm

Image

Indeed, like I said, the delievery guy was looking at it and me oddly. Thanks Bryan :lol:

I have been doing things to mine :shock: .

Nem

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Nemrod
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:19 am

Well, I am still working on it but I have it threaded loosely and I have made the needed modifications to suit and fit me. Notice the lowered waist slots and the bent upper and lower corners. The bent upper corners allow the plate to sit close to my back and conform in the shoulders and provide a smoother transition to my shoulders for the straps. The bent lower corners prevent the plate from cutting into my derrière. I also added a couple of holes for adding clips etc.

Image

I actually use my D rings so yes, it has D rings, I like them and use them, sorry vintage fans. Next I may have it anodized, maybe not, not sure right now.

So, why did I add two more waist band slots lower down? Well, the straps were binding on my shoulders and just could not get comfortable. Also, I have limited movement in both shoulders, ACL injuries, one most recently aggravated by the "crash" so I have difficulty getting in the harness unless the shoulder straps have plenty of room. I always set my plates with loose shoulder straps, I rely on the waist strap to secure the plate. I will also add a one inch crotch strap. The bends look larger than they are, just the angle of the photo, they are only a couple of degrees. I used a large sheet metal break to make the bends.

When I first tried the plate I liked it but something was just not right for me and it took me a bit to put my finger on it, once I realized, the main issue, the waist slots were just too high (for me), it was an ah, ha moment.

Nem

21
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:39 am

[quote="leicamshooter"]Well I asked Bryan but he wasn't sure... Has anybody tried using twin tanks on this plate. And if so, how did you go about setting it up. I'm interested in using my twin 45's on this plate... which I'm currently using with the Penutking bands and an Alan vintage harness.

I like the idea of using the Penutking bands on this plate, with my 45's, but just wonder what the best way is to attach them to the plate?

Regards
Gonzalo[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seacraft made the original back plates in three models...see my previous post as follows:

In the late 1950s, Seacraft of Wilmington Mass, produced and marketed three models identified as a "Backplate" and indeed they were "Back plates." Flat with holes for attachment of cylinders,harnesses etc
They were listed in their catalogs as as follows:

*** A320 single back plate............................................. .......$15.95

*** A321 double, -or single-tank set up................................ $21.95

*** A322 Triple tank set up for three 40 cuft tanks...............$24.95

The units VDH will be marketing are modern improved copies of the A320 single back plate.

FYI

About 1957-8 US divers surplused all their 40 cuft clyinders indentified in the US Divers catalog as #0701, H3- 2250 PSI , 5" X 23", 14-1/2 pounds. As single tanks they were commonly idenified and marketed as as women's tanks, when manifolded as three clylinders they were often idnetified and marketed as Navy Units - # 0608-FJ3.

The local dive shop owner, Bob Ruetherford ( Sea Sabres Signaling System, Legends of diving, www.portagequarry.com) purchased every one of the #0701s at a bargin price, some how Bob discovered Seacraft and their Back Plates and created the Orange County twin 44s (40cuft with 10% overfill)

I was a friend and neighbor of Bob (for you who are familar with Orange county, California, Bob lived on the corner of Brookhurst and Cerritos, I lived a half block away on Cerritos--Tommy Thompson a few streets south and south of Tommy was Fred Roberts-small world!)

Bob checked his sucker list and I was near the top so he sold me one of the first sets of "OC twin 44s." After a few dives I was hooked and begged for another set which I purchased for considerably more than the original set. As time went by I purchased several other sets, and now have 4 sets.
The Seacraft back plates are in my estimation one great secrets of the diving world. They are the most comfortable units ever designed and certainly most versible. Over the past fifty plus years I have modified and used them with a variety of PFV, BIUs, and Vests, all very adaptable and still very comfortable to dive.

The A322 tripple tank unit,(which I think mine are) is especially well suited for the double tank configuration. Once the clyinders are secured to the back plate via hose clamps it is an absolutely solid unit with no movement with the valve connections. I have used them with pig tails which I preferr as well as a normal double manifold with reserve..rock solid.

SDM
21Diving Pioneer Posts: 635Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:53 pmLocation: Central California

saltigagt
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:19 am

Have tried diving my phoenix with the vintage backplate a few times, trying to adjust into the proper position in between my shoulder blades. The last time i tried it last week, the bottom of the AL80 tank is almost to the back of my knees, arching my head backward the can doesn't touch my head, so it should be in the right position (did not manage to take any photoes). However, it still breathes quite hard (did not check the cracking effort, but IP is stable at 140-150). Also, in order to position the Can and tank lower, the shoulder straps will be a bit loose when underwater, will adding a crotch strap improve the position/WOB? I tried to find more pictures of actual divers with vintage backplate and double hose as a point of reference, but its quite limited. Any pointers? The Aquarius 2nd stage attached to the Phoenix used as an Octo breathes great. Am scratching my head! Thank you!

here are pictures of the setup
Image
Image

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Herman
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:32 am

As you can imagine, troubleshooting over the internet is not the best method but there are 2 main catagories of problems that will cause the reg to breath hard, underwater reg position and a defective and/or improperly adjusted reg.
From the sounds of it, the reg position is correct HOWEVER, without actually seeing it underwater, that is a guess. I once had a friend borrow my Phoenix on a dive trip to try it, after the dive he commented on how hard it breathed....which totally confused me as I was fine when I dove it. My regs tend to be set almost on the edge of too loose. Reviewing the photos of him later showed the problem, he was wearing a loose jacket type BC and he was actually suspended in the BC (too much air and weight), you could see several inches of daylight over his shoulders through the BC so as he dove, the reg was suspended 3 or 4 inches above his body...no dang wonder it breathed so hard. Not only should the reg be positioned correctly along the body but the BC must keep it close at all times, proper weigthing to avoid excessive air bubbles in the bladder and snug straps are improtant.

And obviously the reg must be working and set up properly. A simple manometer made from several feet of plastic tubing and a ruler will do nicely to check the actual cracking pressure.
Herman

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luis
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:48 am

You do need a crotch strap. A crotch strap is important in order to keep the tank from rising.

The shoulder straps have to be adjusted to allow the regulator in the right position, but the waist strap is not going to hold the tank from working its way up. Only a crotch strap will do that.

I also use a sternum strap, but I don’t always buckle it. It is not as important, but it does help to keep the tank from separating from my back.

I also add a couple of weight pockets on the tank bands and add 4 to 6 pounds with an aluminum tank.

Keep in mind that with any air in your BC wing, it will try to lift the rig away from your back is it is not properly secured.

When I put on my rig I can feel the regulator can touch my back. With a 3 mm wet suit (in the Caribbean) I can feel the can during the dive and when I am swimming down I can feel the bubbles running between the plate and my back.

I hope this helps.


We have been talking about taking and posting some good pictures of how it should look in the water. There are some shots around with poorly placed rig and many more that the angle of the picture makes it very misleading.
Luis

Buceador con escafandra autónoma clásica.

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Bryan
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:36 am

If you would like me to check the regulator on the manometer take off your 2nd stage and gauge and send it my way. This time leave the hoses intact so I can check the work of breathing through the loop. You pay the freight and I'll check it out for free.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

saltigagt
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:05 pm

Thanks for all the help! I'll try to check the cracking effort 1st (am sure there's a thread somewhere which shows how it's done). Bryan, as I live in Kota Kinabalu, Sabah, Malaysia, to send it back to you and have it sent back will cost a fair bit, lemme fiddle around with it a bit more, and IF it really can't be solved,then I'll arrange to send it back your way. Will look into the crotch strap as well, and will get my mates to snap some shots of me with in on land and in the water. Hopefully then you guys can point out something which I am doing wrong.

Oh by the way, if the cans are not in the best position, will the octo breath hard as well? I've disconnected the hoses from the regulator, and tried breathing through it, and it breaths ok, no sucking through a straw kinda effects. :?

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Herman
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:06 pm

As long as the first stage is working properly any second stage connected to the Phoenix will breath fine reguardless of position. Positioning of the cans only effect the second stage of the DH reg, a "normal" second stage connected to a Phoenix is for all practical purposes an odd looking Conshelf.

Removing the hoses and breathing directly off the reg can be dangerous. With no place to vent, a reg that goes into heavy flow due to the venturi can cause lung damage, don't try it.
Herman

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luis
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:14 pm

The octopus is not affected by the position of the cans. The octopus has its own diaphragm and demand valve.

When you refer about taking the hoses off and breathing from it are you referring about the corrugated hose loop? You should not breathe directly from the horn (where the hose attaches to the cans). The flow due to the venturi can be very powerful.

When you breathe from the mouthpiece out of the water is it hard to breathe? If that is the case you may have a check valve that is stuck or not correctly installed… or maybe there is something else blocking the air passage inside the hose.


I was in Malaysia about 15 years ago for work. I went to a power plant on the east coast. It was a great trip. We stayed in a hotel on the beach. It was a very nice place. I would love to go back.
Luis

Buceador con escafandra autónoma clásica.

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