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Bryan
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Re: Tornado 3000-4-3

Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:03 pm

Like Eben I easily get obsessed with things like this....That's why I have a 59 Sears/Elgin mahogany plywood boat with a 1960 Evinrude Golden Jubilee motor on it.....If people would stop demanding that i obsess over their new Argonaut Kraken's I'd jump down the rabbit hole again with this type of project... Very interesting read and I really appreciate and admire the attention to finish detail he's doing.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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SurfLung
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Re: Tornado 3000-4-3

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:15 pm

Bryan wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:03 pm
Like Eben I easily get obsessed with things like this....That's why I have a 59 Sears/Elgin mahogany plywood boat with a 1960 Evinrude Golden Jubilee motor on it.....If people would stop demanding that i obsess over their new Argonaut Kraken's I'd jump down the rabbit hole again with this type of project... Very interesting read and I really appreciate and admire the attention to finish detail he's doing.
-Thanks Bryan. The Rabbit Hole is certainly a good way to describe it. But it is a fun obsession! :)

The Toggle Switch (pressure switch simulator) Idea Worked!

- Tbone suggested I use a toggle switch to simulate the pressure switch... So I can determine the correct wiring. With the toggle switch "ON" the "Normally Open" green START switch turns on the compressor. With the toggle switch "OFF" the START switch can't turn on the compressor because the circuit is still open due to the toggle switch being in the OFF or Open position. I connected the toggle switch in place of the A to 96 wire just as Tbone and AntiqueDiver suggested. Here's the modified drawing Bill sent me.
Image

In the red lettering: Pressure switches have three wires coming off of them. Use a specific two wires to have the switch be Normally Open (NO) and use the other combination of two to have it be Normally Closed (NC). For this set up to work, the Normally Closed NC configuration is needed. This Tornado 3000 switch has the 3rd wire clipped short to dedicate it to NC status.
SurfLung
The Freedom and Simplicity of Vintage Equipment and
Vintage Diving Technique are Why I Got Back Into Diving.

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Re: Tornado 3000-4-3

Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:06 am

Filters and Pressure Switch
- As mentioned before, This Tornado Kidde has an automatic moisture drain. When the compressor is turned off, an "oil safety" opens and allows the liquid in the moisture condenser to drain back out the way it went in. I'm hoping to be able to use this system so I took it apart for inspection.
Image
- I found this inside had what looks like aquarium rocks about 2 inches deep and open air above that. I got the rocks out and cleaned it up with Dawn detergent. And, it looks clean and no corrosion on the inside. But the bottom elbow was partially clogged. I managed to unclog it but am wondering how likely it is to re-clog. The rocks are in there for condensation surface area I assume. I think this is usueable but I don't want to be taking it apart all the time to unclog that bottom elbow. I wonder how long they'd been running this thing with the clog?
- The filter is another story. The ends are held in by a steel ring in a groove.
Image
I had to tap the top inward with a wood mallet in order to get at the steel ring. Once I got the top off, I found the tube nearly full of carbon but with about 1/3 of the bottom filled with moisture absorbent. I vacuumed out all of the filter media and found it completely corroded.
Image
- So, the moisture condenser apparently didn't remove enough moisture. And the filter media didn't absorb enough moisture. OR, the previous users didn't bother to service this thing very often. Obviously, there are some very good reasons why they don't do things like this anymore. For now, I've decided I'll set this up to use the filter array from my RIX compressor.
- The next interesting thing is the pressure switch. Here's a photo:
Image
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The Freedom and Simplicity of Vintage Equipment and
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Re: Tornado 3000-4-3

Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:35 am

The interior wall of that filter tower (converted surplus hydraulic accumulator) looks pretty corroded! Please check that out carefully!

The material in separator might do a good job but need to keep it from jamming up in the inlet fitting. I think I would use some stainless mesh from a strainer like you have in the picture, and fit that to the bottom of the separator.
The older I get the better I was.

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Re: Tornado 3000-4-3

Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:12 am

Quit Fooling Around?
- I crashed through a major hurdle when I tossed the original magnetic starter and bought an easily installed new one. This allowed me to turn the compressor ON and prove that the motor and the compressor are in good working order.
- Another break-thru was figuring how to wire a pressure switch.
- But now, I'm stuck trying to make the crappy old parts work... for nostalia purposes, really. The old moisture condenser, the old corroded filter, the old pressure switch, and the old over pressure safety valve. One by one each of these parts is revealing its weaknesses... And I'm wasting a lot of time and effort on them. Especially now that I'm so close to having the Tornado Kidde 3000 fully operational.
- So, I ordered one of those 2-Tube filter systems on Ebay for $231. Add a new pressure switch, new over pressure release, and either a back pressure regulator or PMV... Stay tuned...
SurfLung
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Vintage Diving Technique are Why I Got Back Into Diving.

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Re: Tornado 3000-4-3

Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:24 am

Clean up/Close up the Wiring...
- Here's the magnetic starter switch with the wiring all neatened up. There's not much room in the box so I kept the wires as short as possible and crimped on connector ends. I've left room for the pressure switch to be wired in as soon as I'm ready.
Image
Image
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Re: Tornado 3000-4-3

Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:32 pm

Testing the Pressure Switch and Over Pressure Valve.
- I hooked up a scuba tank to pressure gauge and the pressure switch. Turned on the air and watched the needle as the pressure rose. right at 2500 psi, the pressure switch will engage and turn off the compressor. This switch is "Normally Closed" (NC). So, when the pressure reaches its target, the switch opens, which turns off the compressor. For this test, I connected a voltmeter to the wires coming out of the pressure switch. And when the switch actuated, the voltmeter needle dropped. So, this test confirms the switch works and that it is set for 2500 PSI.
Image
- Next, I hooked up the OPV (Overpressure Valve) to a scuba tank in much the same way. I turned on the air and watched the needle climb. And sure enough, at 2800 psi, the OPV began to release pressure. So, this test confirms that the OPV works and that it is set for 2500 psi.
Image
- So, the original set up for the Tornado Kidde 3000 was to fill the fire house tanks up to 2500 psi and then shut off. And if it failed to shut off, there would be a back-up OPV to release pressure beyond 2800 psi. I think that since I'll be filling vintage steel tanks, I probably won't fill anything over 2500 psi either (2500 psi is 10% over on a 2250 Scuba tank). I will leave these set the way they are and incorporate them into my final plumbing.
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Re: Tornado 3000-4-3

Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:57 am

Filled a Tank... Twice...
- Configuring the plumbing has held me back until now. This thing has a mixture of NPT, BSPP, BSPT, JIC, and I don't know what else connectors, with a mandatory check valve... That was weirdly plumbed in. I've been stuck deciding where to start and what adapters to use. I finally realized I could hook everything up into the original modified "T" fixture and connect it with high pressure hoses by using JIC connectors.
- So, here its for your viewing pleasure.

- The long JIC hose connections are confusing, I know... Not to mention running them over my RIX SA3 compressor. Sorry about that.
- The vertical black tower is the original moisture condenser for the Tornado 3000. This originally is auto drained by the compressor when the compressor turns off. As you can see, it is about the size of a small pony tank. I didn't realize how much air this thing holds when you turn off at full tank pressures... It's quite a continuous blast of air along with the moisture draining function. If I end up using this, I need to secure the drain hose from whipping all over the place... As well as give it someplace to blow that isn't disrupting or knocking things and debris all over the place.
- I filled a 38 cf 1800 psi tank to 10% over... Which is 42 cf at 2000 psi. It filled in 12 minutes... Which is about 3.5 actual cfm fill rate. I measured the RPMs at 3450... Which is very close to the 3500 rpms specified on the side of the motor.
- This test proved that the compressor is worth spending the money and time to add efficient plumbing and filtration.
SurfLung
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Vintage Diving Technique are Why I Got Back Into Diving.

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Re: Tornado 3000-4-3

Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:39 pm

Thank you Eben. Nice to hear the outcome of all your hard work and research. The OCD in my just ask to ask though...and nothing derogatory meant at all but why didn't you paint it ?
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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Re: Tornado 3000-4-3

Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:38 am

Bryan wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:39 pm
Thank you Eben. Nice to hear the outcome of all your hard work and research. The OCD in my just ask to ask though...and nothing derogatory meant at all but why didn't you paint it ?
Well, I'm ALMOST THERE ... As far as figuring and planning the completion of this project. And THEN... Yes I will paint it. It's actually a pretty neat looking machine with the contrasting black and chrome finish. I think I will mount that "Cheap Filter" array in place of the original black condenser and chrome filter. So, the finished re-furb will include the two copper colored towers.

My plan is to run about a 6" hose directly from the compressor to the original one way check valve. This will start the plumbing which will include the original over-pressure valve, a pressure gauge, and the original automatic pressure switch. Another hose will connect this end of the plumbing to the inlet of the filter array. And my fill whip will connect to the outlet of the filter array. The fill whip has the necessary Back Pressure Regulator to keep the filter array at optimum efficiency. Stay tuned... :)
SurfLung
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Vintage Diving Technique are Why I Got Back Into Diving.

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Re: Tornado 3000-4-3

Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:38 pm

Hi Eben, I applaud your Ingenuity but the only thing I have in common with your project is that I bought the same dolly at Home Depot. :) Keep up the good work. I always enjoy following your projects.
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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Re: Tornado 3000-4-3

Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:15 pm

A Bit of a Set-Back...
- I've been testing a set of Cheap Compressor Filters alongside this compressor project... And in doing so I've been working out how I will set up the plumbing of the air output. Below is a picture of the filter array with the latest plumbing configuration. The long tube on the bottom is the original one-way check valve. Above that is a simple cross connection with the original overpressure valve on the right, a pressure gauge on top, and the inlet to the filter on the left.
Image
- On an earlier run, I had a long hose coming down to this same section of crossed hardware... Woith another long hose going to the compressor outlet. Afterwards, I discovered considerable condensation in the hose coming down from the filter array... The moisture had pooled above the check valve and everything below the check valve got blown out by the auto drain. So this time I put the check valve up near the filter array and connected directly to the compressor outlet with one long hose. So, the hose leading up to the filter array condenses a fair amount of moisture that runs back down the hose. On my RIX compressor system, I installed a bleed valve at the bottom and I am able to drain this hose condensation. On the Tornado Kidde, I can just use the auto drain function to blast out the hose moisture... I believe this is pretty close to the final way I will plumb the Tornado/Kidde.
- A Bit of a Set Back: I checked the oil in the compressorand changed it using a synthetic substitute for Anderol 500. I'm not sure if I put in too much oil or what... Anyway I developed a leak. I'm hoping its just a loose connection or something simple. It's somewhere over on the side of the auto drain. I think I'm going to have to dry it off and observe it while running.
- Otherwise its running well... I filled a test 42 cf tank 3-4 times now and it is going from zero to full at 3.6 cfm. All that's left is to fix the leak and connect to reliable filtration.
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The Freedom and Simplicity of Vintage Equipment and
Vintage Diving Technique are Why I Got Back Into Diving.

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Re: Tornado 3000-4-3

Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:28 pm

Nutz!
- Well just when I thought I was close to finishing, I changed the oil on my Tornado/Kidde 3000 compressor. But afterwards it was spitting oil out of the overpressure cap on the oil sump. I figured I must have over filled it. So, I drained some out and now I can see some air in the top of the glass tube. But now, I have developed an oil leak at the front of the oil pump. I hope I didn't CAUSE the leak by over filling. But in any case I'll have to fix the leak.
- I'm hoping someone can tell me something specific that is USUALLY where a leak develops? I've wiped it all clean and watched it with the pump running and pressurized 1800 psi. It looks like it's coming out of the bottom edge of the front cover that's held on by the 4 allen screws that also mount the fan guard.
- BTW... The oil I'm using is Seco Lube 500 Synthetic from Filtertechs. It lists Anderol 500 compatibility.
SurfLung
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Vintage Diving Technique are Why I Got Back Into Diving.

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Re: Tornado 3000-4-3

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:23 am

Fixing the Oil Leak...
Image
- Thank heavens I have Jim Shelden to help me repair the oil leak I caused by over filling the oil. When Jim said I was going to need an Ice Pick to remove the old seal, I was afraid I would damage something. Jim said something like, "Oh yeah, you're going to make a mess out of the old seal." The picture above shows a big chunk of it that I dug out last night. But there's still more remnants to dig out tonight. Jim is sending me a brand new seal to install and solve the oil leak.
- On my honor, I promise to never over-fill the oil again. :)
SurfLung
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swimjim
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Re: Tornado 3000-4-3

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:45 am

:shock: Looks pretty scary Eben!

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