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SurfLung
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Re: Alkin = Bauer Filter

Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:00 pm

Here's the portable tester being used to fill twin 38s...
Image

And, here's a video of the filter cartridgde being re-packed...

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Re: Alkin = Bauer Filter

Wed Jul 26, 2023 2:13 pm

My Portable Tester Doesn't Work...
- I recently tried using it while filling some tanks with my Alkin compressor. I had sealed it at both ends after putting it away. But when I took it out to use it, I looked in the window and the moisture paper was no longer blue... It was almost white. I heard that running the dry air from a compressor with new filters over a test strip will turn it back to blue. But that didn't do anything. I even changed to a different new filter and got the same result.
- Frankly, I don't think its the "portable" nature of my connection. I think something else is screwy. Instead of sending me a "disk" that fit the window, they sent me a little strip to put next to the CO tester. I ordered different test disk from a different supplier but have not looked at it yet (to see if its a disk) nor have I tried it. Not too thrilled with the reliability of this.

Note: The Alkin actually has THREE points to collect condensation... The first two collect a BUNCH of moisture. The 3rd is at the bottom of the filter tube and it usually is dry... Nothing left to condense. Also, the Alkin has a PMV Pressure Maintenance Velve to squeeze out the most moisture possible. I know this is working because the Alkin has pressure gauges at all three stages and I can watch the pressure build up to optimum moisture squeezing level before I see it finally coming out on the fill gauge. Also, the Alkin is using the same Triplex style filter as a Bauer to soak up any remaining moisture. So, which should I trust?... All of these super features of the Alkin... Or my silly cobbled together test window?

Finally, one Alkin filter is supposed to last 50 hours. I've used my Alkin for almost two summers now and haven't reached 50 hours yet. Even so, I've changed the filter 3 times just for the heck of it.
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Re: Alkin = Bauer Filter

Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:11 pm

Maybe 50 hours at 60 degrees, but decreases significantly with ambient temperatures higher than that. My Bauer filters come with an "hours correction factor chart" that will completely scare the pants off you when you see how quickly the filter life decreases in a "normal" environment.

I curve fit a 7th order polynomial equation to the data points and have a spreadsheet to provide my the theoretical filter life.

The outcome? I've gone to a larger filter, repurposing the OEM vessel to just do water only (packed with 13x MS).
Bob

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Re: Alkin = Bauer Filter

Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:01 am

Holy Moly...
- I looked up your chart and did my own calculations... Holy Moly!
- The virtually same filter cartridge as the Alkin is the Bauer 059183 which will process up to 40,000 cubic feet at 50 degrees Fahrenheit.
- At 3.5 cfm FAD this works out to approximately 15 hours of running time. Not 50 hrs like the Alkin manual says.
- Calculating for a more realistic 86 degrees Fahrenheit filling tanks in my garage... Its down to 5.2 hours.
- Am I figuring this correctly?

BTW - Thanks for this chart. The whole reason for the portable tester was because I don't trust just going by Hours of Run Time. On my Coltri MCH-6, I can look at the test strip to see of the filter media needs changing. I check it before every fill session and often am surprised that it's already used up. But I don't go by hours of run time there. I just change filters when the test strip says so.
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Re: Alkin = Bauer Filter

Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:49 am

I Take It All Back...
- Maybe my portable moisture checker works after all. I think I figured out what I'm doing wrong...
When I ordered the view port, I also ordered the CO and moisture detector. As usual for me, I wanted it to have the lowest possible threshold so I ordered the moisture disk to be 20%. Apparently August Industries ran out of disks so they sent me about a half inch long test strip which was barely visible at the edge of the CO disk. It looked white when running the compressor. So next I ordered a moisture detector "ring" to fit around the CO detector disk. Again I could barely see it around the edge of the CO disk. And again it looked white when running the compressor. This is around the time I decided my contraption wasn't working.
- Well now finally I ordered a solid moisture detecting disk with pie shaped sections for 20, 40, and 60 percent moisture. I took the CO disk out so I can now see the moisture detection clearly. And guess what... The 20% section stays white and the 40 and 60 % sections stay blue.
- I needed a baseline so I opened up a brand new, vacuum sealed filter cartridge and installed it. Then, I filled some more tanks and it ran the 20% section white with the 40 and 60% sections solid blue... Same as my previous filter. (BTW - Temp was 68 F and humidity was 69%)
- On the test disk is printed "Lavender Indicates Humidity". So, I'm figuring the White 20% section means the humidity that's coming out of my compressor is somewhere under 20%. If it was lavender it would actually be 20%.
- The next question is what humidity do the test strips indicate on Lawrence factor filters? Because, they stay blue when running new... just like the 40 and 60% sections of my test disk.
- Anyway, I'm now thinking the portable moisture checker is working fine... My problems with it were of my own making.
- My plan is to run with the 20% section white. When it turns lavender (or the 40% section turns white) it's time to change filters. Now it will be interesting to see how many hours of actual run time I can get before filters need changing.
- Best Regards, Eb
P.S. I have a question sent in to Alkin about using the Bauer charts to figure filter life. Have not heard back from them yet.
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Re: Alkin = Bauer Filter

Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:58 am

Uhhh... Once again I have found that my own ignorance has missed the answer I should have seen before... The pie chart moisture disk was purchased thru August Industries. And, the description on their website reads as follows...

" A moisture indicating disc for our visual indicators. This disc is designed to show the relative humidity in a progressive scale. As 20 percent relative humidity is reached, the pie shaped section marked “20” will change color to pink. The same for 40 and 60. Normally filters should be changed before a relative humidity of 60 is reached. Color will revert back to blue when a new filter is placed in the system."
Image

I haven't heard from Alkin on my question about using the Bauer chart to figure filter life.

I did hear back from Lawrence Factor who said "The test strip should not be used as an indicator of when to change the filter. It should be a back up". In the case of my Alkin, I think the test strip will turn color long before the "50 Hours" filter life is stated in the operator's manual. I think he meant it the other way... ie. if my time of use says it's time to change but the indicator strip hasn't changed color, go with the time of use and change the filter anyway.
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Re: Alkin = Bauer Filter

Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:04 pm

I use the disc/eye glass of moisture deteciton as a "suspenders" to the "belt" (hours/humidity chart). What the disc tells me is if I messed up and didn't drain in time, and trashed my filter....

I also run an inline real time CO monitor which in theory, if the filter gets wet, would go bananas..

Bill and I are still thinking through the occurrence of a spike of CO when the filter is repressurized....
Bob

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Re: Alkin = Bauer Filter

Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:45 pm

BauerFilter.jpg
Here are my thoughts...

I'm convinced that the Alkin P21 Purifier cartridge is structurally the same cartridge as the Bauer Triplex cartridge 059183A. The Bauer specs say this cartridge will process up to 3200 cubic feet of air ( disregard temp for the moment). At a Free Air Deliver (FAD) rate of 3.7 cubic feet per Minute (CFM) my Alkin would last 864 minutes or only 14.4 hours instead of the 50 hours the manual specifies.

BUT... That Bauer 3200 cubic feet number is based on the Bauer Triplex purification system. Which has condensation all at the end of the compression cycle... At least, I'm not seeing additional condensation points in the photos of the portable Bauer compressors equipped with that 059183A filter cartridge.

My Alkin W31 compressor, on the other hand has condensation and drain chambers at all three compression stages before any air gets to the Alkin P21 purifier cartridge. Additionally, the 3rd stage condensation chamber has the filter cartridge turned upside down (compared to the Bauer Triplex chamber) so that the in and outlets are on top... Far away from any condensed liquid that's to be drained out the bottom. This certainly LOOKs like quite a bit more capacity for removal of moisture than the single stage system of the Bauer Triplex cartridge. So, I'm thinking maybe the Alkin engineers have calculated a much higher (50 hours) starting capacity for the Alkin cartridge IN THE ALKIN SYSTEM. In other words, I'm thinking the Bauer cartridge as well, will have significantly higher capacity than 3200 cf if it is used in the ALKIN system.

I still have not received an answer from Alkin regarding the Bauer chart, so I'm just going on my own reasoning here.
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Re: Alkin = Bauer Filter

Thu Aug 03, 2023 7:05 pm

SurfLung wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:45 pm
BauerFilter.jpgHere are my thoughts...

.... BUT... That Bauer 3200 cubic feet number is based on the Bauer Triplex purification system. Which has condensation all at the end of the compression cycle... At least, I'm not seeing additional condensation points in the photos of the portable Bauer compressors equipped with that 059183A filter cartridge.

My Alkin W31 compressor, on the other hand has condensation and drain chambers at all three compression stages before any air gets to the Alkin P21 purifier cartridge.


The three stage Bauers that I am familiar with don't have a condensation drain after the first stage, but they have a moisture collection device and drain valve after the second stage to dispose of first and second stage condensate. That separator and drain valve isn't located on the Triplex purification assembly, so it doesn't show up in the above diagram.

This photo of my somewhat modified 3 stage Bauer shows me pointing to the 2nd stage separator and manual drain valve factory mounted at the inlet side of the 3rd stage. The Triplex unit to the right has two drains for 3rd stage condensate - one for each chamber within the tower (both are at same pressure). The drain valve knobs are obviously not original, but I find them easier to operate.

Image
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Re: Alkin = Bauer Filter

Mon Aug 07, 2023 10:11 am

Thanks Bill! I stand corrected! Actually, after posting that illustration, I studied it closer and could see the two moisture collection systems in the Triplex... I see that the filter cartridge is actually in a sleeve that's separate from a primary air inlet and the sleeve feeds air to the filter cartridge from the top... Away from the moisture that settles to the bottom of the primary inlet. And that primary inlet looks like it creates a spiralling air movement that (I believe) settles out most of the moisture by centrifugal force. So, there's one drain from the primary inlet and one drain from whatever's left under the filter cartridge.

The collector and drain under the 2nd stage I totally missed. So, all of my comparisons of the Bauer vs Alkin are totally wrong. I don't have a Bauer... Never used a Bauer, and I have no business commenting on something I know nothing about. I think I got going there just because the filter cartridges are so similar. :oops:

BUT... I am working through a problem/confusion I'm having with my Alkin compressor. And it isn't solved even YET. Yesterday the temperatures cooled down and so I went to fill some tanks. Naturally I used my portable moisture checker... Which now showed the 40% section as white and the 20% section with a hint of pink. Okay, if my brand new filter media cartridge is the same as it was when I stopped filling the other day, the 40% section should turn back to blue as the same dry air as before runs through it... RIGHT?

WRONG. It didn't turn back to blue at all. It didn't change at all. So, a brand new filter cartridge could only fill 2-3 tanks before it's putting out 40% moisture already? This on a system that's supposed to last up to 50 hours? I have to believe there is something wrong with this portable tester.

Okay so how do I confirm this? Well, my RIX SA3 has spiral vortex moisture collectors on 2nd and 3rd stages, plus another collector after the 3rd stage... And then three filter cartridge tubes with their own blue test strips. All running at maximum efficiency under a PMV. So, I can just open them up and check to be sure their test strips are running blue before I fill tanks. I'm going to do this and the air that comes out is going to be run through my portable tester. And here's what this test will prove:

If the portable tester test disk turns back to blue, I'll know the portable tester is working and there's something wrong with my Alkin filter cartridge..
If the portable tester test disk stays white, I'll know the portable tester isn't reliable. :|
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Re: Alkin = Bauer Filter

Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:14 am

Testing the Portable Tester with my RIX SA3 Compressor

My RIX SA3 has three filter media tubes. I checked to confirm all three have solid blue moisture indicator strips. I used the RIX to fill three scuba tanks and ran the air through the portable moisture checker. The checker started out this time with both the 20 and 40% pie sections colored white. I wanted to see if they would actually turn back to blue with air that was filtered over brand new filter media. THEY DIDN'T. They stayed the same white color for all three fills. And afterwards I checked my RIX filters and they still had solid blue test strips.

In fact, this portable tester contraption never indicated any change in moisture. Whatever color the test disk was when it started, it would stay that way for the whole time I was running air through it. I'm talking about every filling session that I tried using it.

Conclusions...
1. Maybe the checker unit itself has a blockage (defect) that isolates the test disk from the air passing through it.
2. The checker unit is really not indicating ANYTHING.
3. I'm back to square one and using the hour meter to tell when to change filter cartridges...
4. But at least NOW I have the Bauer and AntiqueDiver Charts to use with my hour meter!

Thanks RWestphal and Antiquediver
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Re: Alkin = Bauer Filter

Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:32 am

if you want my spreadsheet, message me with an email address...
Bob

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Re: Alkin = Bauer Filter

Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:43 am

Conclusions...

The original question is whether the Alkin and Bauer filter are interchangeable for use on the Alkin. Here are possible answers...

1. Structurally the Alkin P21 cartridge and the Bauer P0 Triplex cartridge look identical and both fit the Alkin W31 compressor. (I've used them both on my Alkin.

2. The filter capacity is the question that took us off topic into moisture detection. Alkin says the P21 filter cartridge will last up to 50 hours but that temperature and humidity can affect this. Bauer gets much more technical and precise... They say the P0 Triplex has a capacity of 3200 cf at 50 degrees F. They provide a chart with correction factors to compensate for higher temperatures and humidity.

3. Bill Tucker simplified this with his own chart for the filter life of popular Bauer cartridges at , 50, 68, and 92 degrees F.

4. Using Bill's chart, The Bauer P0 Triplex cartridge lasts 27 hours at 50, 15 hours at 68, and 8 hours at 92 degrees, F.

5. I still have not received any answers on this from Alkin.

So, I'm going to use the Bauer data and set my Alkin P21 filter cartridge replacement at 8 hours or 3 months, whichever comes first.
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Re: Alkin = Bauer Filter

Mon Aug 14, 2023 5:51 pm

SurfLung wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:43 am
Conclusions...

The original question is whether the Alkin and Bauer filter are interchangeable for use on the Alkin. Here are possible answers...

1. Structurally the Alkin P21 cartridge and the Bauer P0 Triplex cartridge look identical and both fit the Alkin W31 compressor. (I've used them both on my Alkin.

2. The filter capacity is the question that took us off topic into moisture detection. Alkin says the P21 filter cartridge will last up to 50 hours but that temperature and humidity can affect this. Bauer gets much more technical and precise... They say the P0 Triplex has a capacity of 3200 cf at 50 degrees F. They provide a chart with correction factors to compensate for higher temperatures and humidity.

3. Bill Tucker simplified this with his own chart for the filter life of popular Bauer cartridges at , 50, 68, and 92 degrees F.

4. Using Bill's chart, The Bauer P0 Triplex cartridge lasts 27 hours at 50, 15 hours at 68, and 8 hours at 92 degrees, F.

5. I still have not received any answers on this from Alkin.

So, I'm going to use the Bauer data and set my Alkin P21 filter cartridge replacement at 8 hours or 3 months, whichever comes first.
I want to add a bit to the Bauer information. My "simplified" chart was derived directly from Bauer's information, but was simplified because absolutely none of the fire departments I serviced would bother with the more complex Bauer charts. So much thinking and recording was required to do it "Bauer's Way" that they just would not even attempt to keep track of it at all. Luckily the Bauer numbers are actually pretty conservative, and I have seen Triplex filters go well beyond the recommended change times and still get good quarterly air tests. I'm not recommending that, just reporting.

Of course most of them totally ignored my simplified chart as well! So the further simplification for them was that I placed a service sticker with a maximum date and maximum run hours to watch for. They were to contact me when approaching the calendar time and/or run hours, and I would take care of filter changes and other general checks. Only a small percentage of them remembered to even do that. Luckily most of them were having me do the required quarterly air test sampling anyway, so I could usually catch a filter change before they were expired from moisture. Not always. A few of the really busy places (like Dallas) would fail air tests occasionally because they never looked at the run hours on my service decals.

Despite my mild frustrations with some departments, most were staffed with great folks! I enjoyed knowing them, certainly appreciated what they did to protect their communities, and I wanted to do my best to insure that they were breathing good quality air.

All said, I like the sight-glass indicators for determining moisture levels.
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Re: Alkin = Bauer Filter

Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:31 am

Alkin's Response

I received the following from Aydin Dereci, general manager of Alkin USA...

"Hi Eben,

Max 50 Hours cartridge life time is based on the 20 degree Celsius lab conditions. Humidity and height from sea level will affect the filter time.

I have received this information below from one of the engineers.

W31 compressor’ s filter life time is due to its modern design.
If you look at the size of moisture separator and cooling fins and cooling coils compared to other manufacturers are much larger this ensures that the air delivered is clean and dryer air suitable for breathing applications, minimizing the water vapor.
The Alkin P21 filter cartridge is specifically packed in a way that it gives the best performance and this is why it out performs other cartridges.
Inside the P21 cartridge is molecular sieve and Active carbon.
Molecular sieve.
Adsorption: The molecular sieve has a unique structure with tiny pores of a specific size. When compressed air passes through the filter tower, the water vapor present in the air gets adsorbed into these pores, while other gases can pass through unaffected.
Active carbon.
Activated carbon element is used to remove contaminants from air, particularly harmful gases, vapors, and odors. Active carbon has a high surface area and is treated to have numerous small pores, which allows it to absorb a wide range of pollutants and impurities.

Thanks,
Aydin Dereci
General Manager"

Eb's Comments:
1. He is talking 20 degrees celsius, that's 68 degrees F... Basically room temperature.
2. "Larger separator, fins, and coils"... I can vouch for that from examining my W31 compressor.
3. Larger cooling coils reminds me of a story Antiquediver told me: He had to solve a moisture problem on a compressor in a hot, humid resort environment. The resort had plenty of ice making capability for cocktails. So Bill added a bunch more cooling coils, kept them submerged in a tub full of ice water, and increased the condensation moisture separation more than enough to solve the problem.
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