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Discussion of diving methods and equipment available prior to the development of BCDs beyond the horse collar. This forum is dedicated to the pre-1970 diving.
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antique diver
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Re: "Build Your Own Diving Lung" in 2018

Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:56 pm

Eben, thanks for the great photos. It helps me with ideas on how to get the reg body down lower than the Popular Science version.
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antique diver
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Re: "Build Your Own Diving Lung" in 2018

Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:59 pm

I knew an older fellow that had personally converted surplus aviation Oxygen regulators for underwater use in the early 1950's, and actually took them cave diving :shock: . He and his small group of adventurous cave diving pioneers were almost certainly the first to use diving "Lungs" to begin underwater exploration in Phantom Lake Cave. When we began our exploration and biological collections project for the Bureau of Reclamation there in 1995 he got wind of it and wrote to me telling of his early experiences there. We met up at Phantom a few months later, and he showed us some of his interesting collection of old diving gear they used there in the 50's, much of it homemade, and some was pretty well done. John entertained us for hours with his interesting tales of early cave diving.

Here's a exact quote from John Coffee’s letter to me in 1996:
Myself,…John Mason and… Al Hull did preliminary non photographic dives into the system beginning in 1952 with dive gear so primitive that the two hose Aqualung regulator is Star Trek quality. We used 1800 psi aluminum Air Force high altitude demand regulators converted to two hose underwater breathing gear and ran them at 3000 psi, often with disastrous results such as the first stage suddenly disappearing with a loud “bang”.

It's really a wonder that they survived given the complexity of the cave, the simplicity of their gear and the general lack of knowledge of cave diving available at the time!
The older I get the better I was.

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ScubaLawyer
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Re: "Build Your Own Diving Lung" in 2018

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:32 pm

antique diver wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:59 pm
I knew an older fellow that had personally converted surplus aviation Oxygen regulators for underwater use in the early 1950's, and actually took them cave diving :shock: . He and his small group of adventurous cave diving pioneers were almost certainly the first to use diving "Lungs" to begin underwater exploration in Phantom Lake Cave. When we began our exploration and biological collections project for the Bureau of Reclamation there in 1995 he got wind of it and wrote to me telling of his early experiences there. We met up at Phantom a few months later, and he showed us some of his interesting collection of old diving gear they used there in the 50's, much of it homemade, and some was pretty well done. John entertained us for hours with his interesting tales of early cave diving.

Here's a exact quote from John Coffee’s letter to me in 1996:
Myself,…John Mason and… Al Hull did preliminary non photographic dives into the system beginning in 1952 with dive gear so primitive that the two hose Aqualung regulator is Star Trek quality. We used 1800 psi aluminum Air Force high altitude demand regulators converted to two hose underwater breathing gear and ran them at 3000 psi, often with disastrous results such as the first stage suddenly disappearing with a loud “bang”.

It's really a wonder that they survived given the complexity of the cave, the simplicity of their gear and the general lack of knowledge of cave diving available at the time!
Bill,

Wow, that was back when diving was an adventure for only true watermen (and I'm sure some women); not like now where it is something to check off your bucket list by signing up for the 10:00 a.m. discover diving cruise ship time slot. (Sarcasm intended).

Thanks for sharing.

Mark
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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antique diver
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Re: "Build Your Own Diving Lung" in 2018

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:42 pm

[/quote]

Bill,

Wow, that was back when diving was an adventure for only true watermen (and I'm sure some women); not like now where it is something to check off your bucket list by signing up for the 10:00 a.m. discover diving cruise ship time slot. (Sarcasm intended).

Thanks for sharing.

Mark
[/quote]

Yep, as they say, back when Tanks were made of wood and divers were made of steel.
The older I get the better I was.

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SurfLung
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Re: "Build Your Own Diving Lung" in 2018

Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:53 am

SurfLung wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:29 pm
I remembered seeing some photos from early '50s MN divers using this type of regulator.
Image
Image
- These photos are from a bunch that were posted on Scuba Board by the son of Mr. Travis, of the Travis Dive Shop.
- Hey Bill, I'm noticing the use of tubing to connect these regulators to the tank. The early Cousteau multiple tank systems used tubing for connections, as well. I'm wondering what's involved in working with metal tubing for high pressure connections. How do you bend it an how do you know it can stand the pressure?
SurfLung
The Freedom and Simplicity of Vintage Equipment and
Vintage Diving Technique are Why I Got Back Into Diving.

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antique diver
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Re: "Build Your Own Diving Lung" in 2018

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:03 am

The hose assembly as connected to the regulator in the magazine article was a floppy mess. (see previous photo of a page from mag).
My first attempt at an improved connection was not much better:
11.Original hose placement.JPG
I decided the whole mess needed to get closer to the regulator body, and ended up with this:
13.Improved hose config.JPG
The excess diaphragm material has not been trimmed away, and the duckbill assembly is still a work in progress.

The new hose tee started out as a shiny new copper tube fitting from Home Depot, but that just didn't look right on a vintage reg so it was aged to an old copper look by boiling it in a strong copper sulphate solution until well done:
(outside work only since the fumes are probably toxic)
10.aged tee.JPG
The exposed duckbill exhaling valve is another holdover from the article that I was thinking of improving, but I guess I shouldn't get too modern. If it works ok maybe I'll just leave it.
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antique diver
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Re: "Build Your Own Diving Lung" in 2018

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:23 am

[/quote]
- Hey Bill, I'm noticing the use of tubing to connect these regulators to the tank. The early Cousteau multiple tank systems used tubing for connections, as well. I'm wondering what's involved in working with metal tubing for high pressure connections. How do you bend it an how do you know it can stand the pressure?
[/quote]

I'm not sure what wall thickness is necessary for 1800 psi in Copper tubing, but I have seen it used in O2 systems in 2500 psi service. I'll have to check into that, or maybe someone on the forum can enlighten us on that.

I will initially be using Stainless tubing in a similar manner since I have that on hand and work with it all the time with up to 6000 psi service. I hope to replace it later with Copper tubing if I can find some that I am sure is sufficient for 1800 working pressure. I don't think regular water plumbing stuff is adequate, but don't really know at this point.

Copper and Stainless can be shaped with readily available tubing benders. Trying to do it by hand can cause kinking and looks amateurish as well.
Inexpensive Hardware store benders work well with Copper and on 1/4" SS. 3/8" SS is best done with a better bender. A little practice with cheap tubing is a good idea first. Probably can get some pretty good instructions on tube bending online, or even better, come to Texas for a couple of days and I'll help you with that!
The older I get the better I was.

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Bryan
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Re: "Build Your Own Diving Lung" in 2018

Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:42 pm

Bill, you want refrigeration tubing, it requires silver soldering, but that soft drawn copper is not going to cut it in high pressure applications.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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antique diver
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Re:

Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:28 pm

Bryan wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:42 pm
Bill, you want refrigeration tubing, it requires silver soldering, but that soft drawn copper is not going to cut it in high pressure applications.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
Good to hear. I've worked with that and silver solder before when installing a central AC system. No problem with the right torch. I have some 3000 psi rated brass compression fittings that will also work with that.

I think this project just begs for the vintage look of copper tubing instead of the more modern looking SS. Thanks for the advice.
The older I get the better I was.

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Vancetp
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Re: "Build Your Own Diving Lung" in 2018

Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:58 pm

What an awesome project! I have read that article several times and even looked at diluters on eBay, but never felt like taking it on. I am following your exploits with interest!

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antique diver
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Re: "Build Your Own Diving Lung" in 2018

Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:28 pm

Hi Phillip, I appreciate your interest :D

I am really having fun with this project and hope to add some new information soon. Maybe tomorrow.
The reg is not complete yet by any means, but I need to get in the water for a preliminary test dive before deciding which way to go on some further modifications, and to see if this whole conglomeration is worth continuing to work on.

Test dive in a pool will be done with
15. Components.JPG
1. Single 38, made in 1951. Equipped with Scott CGA-346 air valve.
2. Original 1950's Aqualung harness, never repaired or modified. (probably the safest part of this setup)
3. Unfinished Bendix Oxygen Diluter, 1942 model I think. Modified by removing some sophisticated automatic gas mixing stuff and adding parts made in my garage.
a. Oxygen/Air dilution mechanisms removed
b. New low pressure seat from Mares MR12
c. New Homemade demand diaphragm
d. New homemade adapter for exhaling valve - conventional duckbill for now
e. New homemade connecting adapter for hose loop
f. Uknown date vintage hose loop that I think is Nemrod, not sure
g. Assorted Stainless Steel tubing and compression fittings, all 6000 psi. Temporary, and to be replaced with copper later.
h. Several 12 psi rated rubber bands. Two holding diaphragm in place, one holding duckbill on, and one holding the main cover :roll:

What could possibly go wrong here?
16. Assembled test.JPG
WISH ME LUCK!
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Vancetp
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Re: "Build Your Own Diving Lung" in 2018

Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:02 pm

I'd like to hear more about the diaphragm fabrication. That seems to be the major stumbling block.

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SurfLung
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Re: "Build Your Own Diving Lung" in 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:46 am

antique diver wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:28 pm
Hi Phillip, I appreciate your interest :D

I am really having fun with this project and hope to add some new information soon. Maybe tomorrow.
The reg is not complete yet by any means, but I need to get in the water for a preliminary test dive before deciding which way to go on some further modifications, and to see if this whole conglomeration is worth continuing to work on.

Test dive in a pool will be done with 15. Components.JPG
1. Single 38, made in 1951. Equipped with Scott CGA-346 air valve.
2. Original 1950's Aqualung harness, never repaired or modified. (probably the safest part of this setup)
3. Unfinished Bendix Oxygen Diluter, 1942 model I think. Modified by removing some sophisticated automatic gas mixing stuff and adding parts made in my garage.
a. Oxygen/Air dilution mechanisms removed
b. New low pressure seat from Mares MR12
c. New Homemade demand diaphragm
d. New homemade adapter for exhaling valve - conventional duckbill for now
e. New homemade connecting adapter for hose loop
f. Uknown date vintage hose loop that I think is Nemrod, not sure
g. Assorted Stainless Steel tubing and compression fittings, all 6000 psi. Temporary, and to be replaced with copper later.
h. Several 12 psi rated rubber bands. Two holding diaphragm in place, one holding duckbill on, and one holding the main cover :roll:

What could possibly go wrong here?
16. Assembled test.JPG
WISH ME LUCK!
Good Luck!
You Crazy Nut!

- Your rig looks better than the ones in the pictures. Congratulations on all of the work and skill you've put into it. VERY NICE!
SurfLung
The Freedom and Simplicity of Vintage Equipment and
Vintage Diving Technique are Why I Got Back Into Diving.

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Vancetp
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Re: "Build Your Own Diving Lung" in 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:50 pm

A mushroom style exhaust made out of/with a USD wagonwheel might be the way to go. It would be easy to machine an enclosure for it. It's kind of scary having the duckbill hanging out in the current like that! I made this one out of PVC fittings.

ImageDSCF2273 by Vancetp, on Flickr
ImageDSCF2274 by Vancetp, on Flickr
Here's a wagon wheel I made out of a Franks Hot Wing Sauce flip top for my Russian AVM-1M mouthpiece. I ended up stuffing Sportsways wws in there instead. But an enclosure could be made easily for this too.:
ImageIMG_3043 by Vancetp, on Flickr

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Vancetp
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Re: "Build Your Own Diving Lung" in 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:02 pm

That Nemrod hose loop looks really dangerous. Please save yourself and ship it to me right away so you aren't tempted to use it! I will put it on a Snark III for display purposes only with a little plaque saying you donated it to the piece. :D

A new loop with a mouthpiece made out of a copper tee fitted to garden hose sections is much more appropriate.....if the hoses are held on with rubberbands!

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