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Discussion of diving methods and equipment available prior to the development of BCDs beyond the horse collar. This forum is dedicated to the pre-1970 diving.
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ScubaLawyer
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Need HW Gold Label schematic

Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:30 am

Looked in the M&C section but didn't see a diagram. Doesn't look very complicated but always like to make sure no parts are missing. Prior posts mentioned a diagram in Roberts book (which i ain't got). Can anyone please provide a HW Gold Label schematic? Thanks. Mark.

UPDATE: May have found the schematic in the 1962 Healthways catalog - looks like it anyway on page 39.
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

regulatorbj
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Re: Need HW Gold Label schematic

Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:11 am

Hi scubalLawyer, Have drawing HW Gold

Email [email protected]

regulatorbj

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ScubaLawyer
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Re: Need HW Gold Label schematic

Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:29 am

regulatorbj wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:11 am
Hi scubalLawyer, Have drawing HW Gold

Email [email protected]

regulatorbj
Email sent. Thank you.

Mark
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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Bryan
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Re: Need HW Gold Label schematic

Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:06 pm

If it's available I'd like to add it to the download library in PDF form if at all possible. :D
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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ScubaLawyer
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Re: Need HW Gold Label schematic

Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:42 pm

Hi all,

Got my highly thrashed Gold Label apart. The following part was missing. (Diagram is from the 1962 HW catalog in M&C section). Any idea where I can acquire one? Thanks. Mark.
HW PART 71 x.jpg
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"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

ovalis
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Re: Need HW Gold Label schematic

Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:10 pm

You don't need it if you're using a J valve

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ScubaLawyer
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Re: Need HW Gold Label schematic

Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:18 pm

ovalis wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:10 pm
You don't need it if you're using a J valve
Now I am intrigued. Don't mean to ask for a dissertation but a little more info would be appreciated. Do I not need the o-ring adjacent to it either? Thanks. Mark
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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antique diver
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Re: Need HW Gold Label schematic

Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:45 pm

ScubaLawyer wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:18 pm
ovalis wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:10 pm
You don't need it if you're using a J valve
Now I am intrigued. Don't mean to ask for a dissertation but a little more info would be appreciated. Do I not need the o-ring adjacent to it either? Thanks. Mark
It does not have to be in there. That was their version of an "automatic" reserve. The small hole does just what you would expect, making it hard to breathe at lower pressures. Ascending let you breathe easier, but descending just made it get worse again. There's no mistaking that you are running low on air, it just doesn't wait until the last minute to let you know. (I hope this wasn't too much of a "dissertation", but didn't know how to shortcut it)

I might suggest putting it together with the restrictor and diving with it so you can experience it as originally designed. Then you can always take it out later for easier breathing. Sometimes I hesitate to hot rod an old reg to make it breathe better than original. You miss the feel of what the diving was really like "way back when".

I probably have a restrictor I could send as a loaner for you to experiment with. If I find more than one I'll be glad to give it to you. I'll start looking.
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ScubaLawyer
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Re: Need HW Gold Label schematic

Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:01 pm

Great Bill, that makes sense. So as I understand it the spring just sits against the filter and no o-ring is needed? Kindly confirm. Mark

P.S. (Here I go showing my ignorance again) I assume this is considered an upstream mechanism like the Mistral so it breathes easiest the lower the tank pressure?
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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antique diver
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Re: Need HW Gold Label schematic

Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:52 pm

I can't see any reason for the oring without the restrictor in there. In fact with nothing to hold it in place it could become a problem just drifting around and possibly tangling up with the spring, maybe even getting into the orifice and blocking flow.

Without the restrictor in place the spring tension will be off a little, but that may not create any problem.

You are right that the unbalanced upstream seat design should have the same breathing characteristics as the Mistral and other unbalanced upstream regs, providing easier breathing when less tank pressure is holding the seat sealed. Come to think of it the restrictor might negate some of that effect and even out the breathing effort. Wonder if that could have been another reason for using it?
The older I get the better I was.

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antique diver
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Re: Need HW Gold Label schematic

Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:13 pm

I found one if you want to give it a try, but not sure if it came from one of the Scuba Stars or the double hose. If you have access to a diagram on those you could compare part numbers. Wow, the hole is only about 0.0315", just a gnat's whisker over 1/32".

Let me know where to send it... I just charge a nominal hourly fee. Kinda like lawyers do. :D
The older I get the better I was.

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antique diver
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Re: Need HW Gold Label schematic

Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:24 pm

I just looked at the Scuba Star manual. The HW Gold uses same restrictor (1611-71) as the Scuba Star that I think my restrictor came out of. The 1611-71 restrictor is for use with K valves or Jvalves with the lever down. The 1611-77 is for use with Jvalve, and from the drawing looks like it has a larger hole. Not sure why they even had that one.
The older I get the better I was.

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ScubaLawyer
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Re: Need HW Gold Label schematic

Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:13 am

Bill, sorta sounds like the only time I'd need the restrictor installed is if I wasn't using a submersible pressure guage AND I wasn't using a j-valve for my reserve? If that's the case then i see no reason to install the restrictor (and probably the reason someone took it out to begin with). Thoughts?

I may charge for my time but no one seems to ever getting around to paying my bill so I basically work my butt off for free. :D
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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Herman
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Re: Need HW Gold Label schematic

Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:25 am

I am going to go against the general consensus here and say you do need either the 71 or 77 restrictor and oring.
While one purpose of the restrictor is to restrict the airflow, it also serves as a spring pad for the main spring. The spinctered filter is not very strong and prone to bending under the pressure of the spring, I have seen some bent ones. Additionally, the oring adds some spacing between the filter and restrictor which in turn adds to the compression of the spring affecting its operation and if you have the restrictor in your hand, you will see it has an indent in the center which serves to keep the spring straight in the bore. The oring also serves as a spacer to keep the restrictor slightly off the filter which provides an air gap between the filter and restrictor, otherwise a slight clog in the center of the filter would effectively clog it shut.

With that all said, if it were mine, I would def reinstall the oring and restrictor but not after I had increased the size of the hole to a around 1/8 . That improves the air flow to the reg.

Another thing to know about the HW GL....or at least mine is this way... is the lever setting is very touchy. I found the reg breaths good with the lever set close but there seems to be a critical spot that if you get dead on it that makes the reg breath great. Get just lightly above or below the spot and the reg breaths fine but find that exact sweet spot and it improves a lot. I would not move the adjusting screw more than 1 flat of the locking nut as you adjust and test it. Oh, and get a new diaphragm from Rob for it.
Herman

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antique diver
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Re: Need HW Gold Label schematic

Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:26 am

Herman, that's a good point about the restrictor being a spring pad. It probably helps the spring stay centered and properly tensioned as well. Is the spring tension greater on that regulator than on a Mistral? I haven't seen a problem there or with similar designs where the spring directly contacts the filter. As we both mentioned the spring tension is lessened without the restrictor, but that as well as the potential for filter distortion might easily be rectified by using a slightly thicker filter or maybe one of the early USD filters with the metal wrapped edge. I think a number of us may have both of those available.

I agree with drilling out the restrictor as the best advice, but only if I had an extra so I could restore the reg to original state if desired. Those shouldn't be to hard to find unless everyone that took them out of HW regs just threw them away. I only have one extra after I send one to Mark, and I'd like to save it for a future HW project.

I'm sure most of us, myself definitely included, just can't help wanting to improve the performance of Vintage regs. But I also find pleasure in diving some of my older regs in original configuration, and use them within their limitations. In some cases it's a sharp reminder of how much improvement has been made in performance since the 50's!
The older I get the better I was.

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