Bouyant Hoses

[Nemrod]

Well, I took some of my stuff to the pool for a shakedown prior to freezing my tail off in Wazee and low and behold but that there was a fellow with a new Mistral. The hoses are freak'n huge. They look like the corrugated tubing from Home Depot. This new Mistral is a perfect example of reinventing something only to forget why things were the way they were before it got reinvented. Like trying to improve the bicycle, real hard to do. The hoses are so big they act like mini-bouyancy compensators floating up over the head. They are needlessly large. The hoses we have had for years are the size they are because they are the best compromise between bouyancy and breathing efficiency. C'mon USD, is this really the best you can do?
Oh, it breaths no better than my Royal, in fact not as well, the Royal makes it whimper and run and hide in the bottom of the dive bag. Of course, did we really expect that the King of Regulators would be unseated by something designed from the left over parts bin. No surprises there.
Nemrod

[1969ivan1]

How do u really feel???? Yep we should start a letter writing campaign to USD and any other diving manufacturer asking them to bring back the real MISTRAL and or the Royal......
I spoke with Chucko by phone today and he said he may be able to slide by WAZEE on the last day!!!!!! YAAAAA! He will come with his Broxton reg and show us how it is really done!
Rob

[pearldiver]

Hey, I saw one at the dive shop. I didn't dare even use it in the pool for fear of drowning. I saw the hoses....gads. The dive shop owner said he used it on a dive and it breathed so hard he had a headache the next day so bad he couldn't get out of bed, then he asked me if I wanted to try it. I said... What do you think? I have my old DA from 1977 and I never get a headache from that. I did ask to bring it to Wazee and he said he sent the thing back to USD. I happen to know the guy who designed that piece of..... um... that thing at USD. No, I'm not kidding. His name is Ed. I won't say a last name, but I did try and con some banjo fittings out of him last year for you Bryan. He didn't respond back. Just shows to go ya, huh? We took that kid diving when he was 12 yrs old. He wore green coveralls to every dive with the pant legs stuffed in army boots. He had printed his last name over the pocket with yellow marker. His mother would shake her head, probably in despair, when he loaded his gear in our van. When he finished HS he took off for the deep sea diving school to weld underwater. He did that, and now he designs this thing? I have a mind to send him an email and let him know it sucks and ask him what he was thinking. He stops in the dive shop here now and then. Wait'll I get my hands on him. I'll tell him WE"LL design the thing for USD and to consult US> How's that sound?

[1969ivan1]

Gayle,
Tell "ED" about this forum. Perhaps after he reads what real divers want he will go back to the drawing board.
Rob

[pearldiver]

Rob, I WILL be telling him. What happened was, I begged him for a Mentor. He was SOOO excited about making this Mistral, but they didn't have a name for it yet. Then, when it came out and I saw the thing with my own eyes. Danny and I kind of rolled our eyes back in our head. He is really a good kid though and we did have alot of fun teasing him. He took it rather well and at least his heart is in the right place. I did tell him about the vintage dive club. He couldn't beleive that people still dive with the old stuff. He is the diving to 2 and 300 feet kind of guy on wrecks with rebreathing equipment.

[1969ivan1]

Let me know how the conversation goes.....I also would be interested in a MENTOR posssibly. It appears to be a real 2 hose reg, unlike the NEW MISTRAL.......

[Bryan]

After reading comments over the past few months I have decided not to pay all the $$ for the new Mistral. I was going to get one for the dive at Wazee but the prices are still too high! I am a player on a Mentor if we can ever get out hands on them...

[Nemrod]

I got to drinking Old Hawk last night and had a vision after passing out. If I took the hose off my shop vac and then got me some PVC pipe adapters I could turn my Royal into a new Mistral. I would have to put a cork in the outlet port and then drill it to about 1/8 inch to act as a restrictor so as to simulate the breathing of this engineering marvel.
OK, it makes sense now, underwater welding school, yep. I didn't realize they gave formal engineering training in underwater welding school. Learn something new everyday. Maybe next time they design a regulator they should hire a plumber or the gas station attendent.
Nemrod

[oldmossback]

James? Gas station attendents? Where do you find gas station attendents? Talking about obsolete!..........Why continue to badger USD, they're owned by the French and they don't listen to Americans. ie: USD is no longer used, it's Aqua Lung now..........US Division.

If the double hose is to be brought back it'll have to be done here in the USA by a company other than USD/AquaLung. There is enough talent on this board to redesign say the RAM for modern needs and bring back the Double under a new different name,,,,,,,all that is needed is finanical backing............not to mention considerable finanical risk.

Is there a market for half a million new double hose regulators, 21st century models? Over the next 5 or 10 years? I figure that is the number to be sold to warrant any business risks. It'll need to be DIN acceptable as well to sell outside the USA.

Then there is the retraining of dive shops---instructors--advertisment--etc: to promote the modern double. It can be done............takes time, money, dedicaton, money, business savy, money, connections..........and more money.

If this dosn't happen, the double hose regulator will probably pass into history with the rest of us double hose users.

Michael

[dhaas]

Amigos,

I posted my experience with the new Mistral over at www.wetpixel.com (in the DSLR forum topic). Wetpixel is one of two digital underwater photography sites I frequent and this regulator generated some interest to the new generation of divers. Especially for critter shooting.

Ron Yanega and I had bought a NEW Mistral, dived them a full day at our local quarry and since sold them. As a photographer I had high hopes for a rear bubble exhaust regulator providing a wee bit more "critter stalking" capability (like getting close to gators in FLA!) LOL

Too be totally honest my original Mistral (circa 1959) Chucko tuned to perfection outbreathed the new one (!!!!!) I'll be acquiring another original Mistral someday (anyone got one they'll sell in 1959-1970 range and ready to dive?)

The reality of diving anywhere except your own dive holes, state parks as we did in FLA, your own boat or some operator who knows you vintage guys is the main thing that will keep any NEW style double hose from ever being designed and sold in volume. It's simple economics. Any regulator sold these days would have to have ports for a SPG, octopus, dry suit hose, etc. This would be a REQUIREMENT, not an option for something to sell well. While my modern gear (except for dry suit diving) uses only 3 hoses (main second stage, Seaquest AirSource BC inflator / octopus and SPG) the norm in the sport diving world today is 4 hoses (!!!!!) with two second stages.....Then the capability to add a dry suit hose, etc.

I'm sure that's why Aqualung (division of Air Liquide for years now) used the Titan balanced first stage, the modern version of the Conshelf XIV with an APEKS designed balanced second stage. I have two Titan LX regs and it's a fantastic light breathing machine. Simple, reliable and light, good to 160' + (not that I would know tha, of course

The NEW Mistral's second stage performance, big buoyant hoses, swivel mouthpiece (which I thought would be great and didn't help comfort one iota IMHO) just doesn't deliver in real world use.....

Someone over at Wetpixel suggested the Inspiration rebreather hose counterweights......Just what I want to haul in my dive bag on an international trip. LEAD!!! NO WAY!!!!

As far as a Mentor being available to the general public, we'd have abetter chance of winning the lottery

Your Mileage May Vary!

David Haas

[BROXTON CHUCK]

I heard the EPA wants to recall all LEAD diving weights as they may be the cause of lead poisioning of divers, and swimmers. This is the doumbest thing ever. The replacements will be made of antimony and cost 10.00 a pound. Hide your lead weights fellas!

[pearldiver]

I just choked on my coffee reading your posts. I am still laughing. If I can. I will get a Mentor. I'll email him again and ask him why he's avoiding me. I know he cringes when he hears my name. I think we could build a new regulator. You guys know the guts and I have a husband who is a tool and die maker from the olden days. When we were going together, I had an old WWII army Air Compressor to fill air tanks. He made a piston for the air compressor part for me and I fell in love with him that moment. He can make anything. His specialty is progressive dies. That is how they made the container box for the two hoses. He could make the dies easy providing he had specs. We'd have to find somewhere to run them though. Expensive...Yes. I wonder where the dies are for USD? That would be fun to do.

[BROXTON CHUCK]

Why go nuts. Just get on ebay and buy whatever your heart desires. What comes on there will satisfy the vintage community for years. Now take a swig of OLD HAWK and calm yourself! Chucko

[oldmossback]

David

My thoughts exactly, minimum 3 LP ports one hp......, replaceable mouthpiece with an ultralite mouthpiece housing, same hoses as noted by James.........then you've got to redesign the 1st stage body to accomidate the hp port, reshape the 1st stage holder for a hp o-ring, make a larger yoke to take in the additional size diameter of the 1st stage holder, etc...........guts can be the same, no need to change that......it's all just some simple metal work. It'd be different enough to get a patent on......those things only last 20 years anyway.

Then you've got logistics, distrubution, advertisment, etc. as I wrote earlier.

On the new Mistral, I have noticed the latest users of this reg. are giving bad reports, notiably the breathing is hard. Not so the first users......do you suppose Aqualung has detuned the remaining regs. before they are shipped to negate any clamor for more double hose regulators? More of """"SEE I TOLD YOU SO, THESE THINGS ARE HARD TO BREATH!""""
Good way to put down the notion the diving world is missing out on a good type of regulator.............so they can keep only selling single hose!

Michael

[Nemrod]

Well, of course a new Royal would have multiple low and high pressure ports.

No, I dont expect Aqualung to produce anything of real value, I badger them because they are kinda like a rerun of TUSA and neon flippers, all flash and no go!

I don't think a half million units would have to be sold right away, it would take time to brush off Padi and demonstrate the superiority by real world diving by noted figures in the industry. The DIR/Tech folks would have to be dealt with as well because one of the main tenants of DIR diving by the guru Bill Main is that the diver breaths a 7 foot long hose looped around his neck and that this is the donated regulator, the seconday is bungeed at the neck--cannot do this with a double hose so that whole concept would cause acceptance of dh regs great trouble in the Tech circles. These guys argue over the shape of D rings so a truely high performance dh reg would cause panic amongst their ranks.

The biggest hurdle to acceptance is that any modern Royal would have to have the capability of supporting multiple LP consumers and have at least two HP ports as well. In the ocean, in currents, off a dive boat you must have a BC--period. I have spent more than 30 minutes at times after drift diving waiting to be retrieved by the boat. I have seen currents rip even strong swimmers off down stream of the anchored boat. The skipper cannot pull up and go after them with other divers in the water. You must have a BC and a safety sausage to keep yourself afloat and visible not to mention ecological reasons like staying of the coral and off the bottom. That is the real world. Nemrod