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Discussion of diving methods and equipment available prior to the development of BCDs beyond the horse collar. This forum is dedicated to the pre-1970 diving.
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antique diver
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Re: USD Royal Mistral (again)

Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:32 pm

slonda828 wrote:Well, if I end up with this one maybe I will sell it. I don't keep scuba gear that doesn't work.


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If you get it, please post some good close-up photos of the critical parts. Maybe someone will come up with a new idea to try. I'm also a sucker for a challenge and eternally hoping to cure problem regulators... not that I have cured very many :?
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Ron
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Re: USD Royal Mistral (again)

Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:46 pm

Certainly BT, even if I do sell it I will take it apart and take detailed high resolution photos first, and post them here. 8)
The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed. -JYC

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Bryan
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Re: USD Royal Mistral (again)

Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:10 pm

We are lacking any derailed record or all the internals so it would be nice to add them to the archive for future reference.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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Ron
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Re: USD Royal Mistral (again)

Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:29 am

I just got a royal mistral if we want to resurrect some of this nonsense again :lol:

I'm willing to spec things out, take high resolution photos, and put money toward something if need be. I will clean this one up when I get it and provide BT or whomever with whatever they need.
The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed. -JYC

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Herman
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Re: USD Royal Mistral (again)

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:04 pm

Bryan, I have a USD exploded view and parts list of RMs if you want it (PDF and DOC)
Herman

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Bryan
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Re: USD Royal Mistral (again)

Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:35 pm

Herman wrote:Bryan, I have a USD exploded view and parts list of RMs if you want it (PDF and DOC)
Herman, take a look in this folder from the Manuals and Catalogs section and send me anything you have that is different please. I'll upload them to this folder. Info on them is hard to come by.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/r8lo628jmyk6 ... bAyDa?dl=0
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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antique diver
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Re: USD Royal Mistral (again)

Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:09 am

slonda828 wrote:I just got a royal mistral if we want to resurrect some of this nonsense again :lol:

I'm willing to spec things out, take high resolution photos, and put money toward something if need be. I will clean this one up when I get it and provide BT or whomever with whatever they need.
I'm looking forward to seeing some photos when you open it up!
The older I get the better I was.

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Ron
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Re: USD Royal Mistral (again)

Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:47 pm

Will do Bill.

Herman, would you email Bryan or me the manual? I'll post it to the Dropbox.


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Ron
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Re: USD Royal Mistral (again)

Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:27 am

The following parts are common between the Royal Mistral (RM) and DW Mistral, per the schematics:

Yoke
yoke screw
dust cap
snap ring
filter
body locating dowel pin
body gasket
can clips (for securing the cans together)
plate screws for lever plate
primary lever
secondary lever
adjustment nut screw
adjustment nut
Diaphragm


These parts are common between the RM and the Royal Aquamaster:

Spring (between filter and crown block)
Crown block (depending on part number of RAM/conshelf)

Based upon my sample size of 1, my RAMs, my conshelfs, and several parts schematics these parts are unique to the RM:

Orifice
HP seat
sleeve
HP seat spring
regulator body
seat pin
.

Image

The deflector built into the can is unique to the RM.

Image

View down the intake horn of the regulator.

Image

Close up of intake horn.

Image

The diaphragm that came with the regulator was original, and was a 2 stage design with the tabs bent as we have all observed previously.

Image

The body, levers, and plate all externally look identical to a regular mistral, to include the body gasket. Internally, the body is markedly different.

Image

I didn't take measurements, but the filter, snap ring, and springs all look like the usual USD stuff. The part numbers match too.

Image

The crown block looks identical to a conshelf visually, but I have not used a micrometer. The part number matches some RAM/conshelf regulators. The crown block does NOT have a backup ring.

Image

Another shot of the crown block, HP seat, and spring.

Image

The spring between the seat and crown.

Image

A closeup of the HP seat, which is solid chrome plated brass.

Image

A shot of the balance chamber of the HP seat.

Image

The cone of the HP seat.

Image


The pin, which looks similar to a mistral but larger and longer. It is also a different part number.

Image

This sleeve sits around the orifice. The orifice has an O-ring around it, like a calypso. The sleeve sits in the main body, and the orifice sits in the sleeve. The o-ring is a standard -12 o-ring.

Image

The reverse of the orifice. It appears to be blackened brass, without any nylon or teflon.

Image

Closeup of the seat mating surface of the orifice.

Image

The HP seat, with its orifice oriented to the side that mates with the seat.

So let me throw a few things out there to manage expectations. I am not a mechanical engineer. Please don't expect me to know mechanical engineer things. I don't expect you to be able to write code in C#, so don't expect me to understand graduate level fluid dynamics. I would like to keep the discussion simple, and in common language. I get that these are just photos. If you want measurements or anything, then just let me know what you would like in normal language that I can understand and I will happily provide anything for which you ask. I own a micrometer, scuba repair tools, a magnahelic, and a standard set of mechanic's tools. In the next few days, I am going to tinker with this rarity and try to get it to work. I am willing to provide parts on loan to people for measurements or what have you if I know you. If not, that's fine too. I'll just see if I can get it running myself if none of this pans out. Thursday night is trivia night at the bar, so please forgive any typos ;)


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luis
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Re: USD Royal Mistral (again)

Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:58 am

The material in that cone seat and orifice looks to be reversed to the other pictures that I have seen.

I may be totally wrong, but I recall seen pictures in the past were the soft seat was on the cone and the orifice had a hard “square” edge.

This reversed material configuration (hard cone with soft orifice) actually has a fighting chance of actually sealing and working. The old Poseidon Cyklon 300 first stage has a very similar design. They often leak a little, but it is small that can be ignored.

The sleeve provides the support for the balancing chamber (AKA the crown block). Can you take some pictures of the inside of the body?

Did you said that the orifice fits inside the sleeve?
Luis

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antique diver
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Re: USD Royal Mistral (again)

Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:53 am

Ron, are you saying the black orifice is all brass, or is some other material bonded to the side where the cone seats? It would seem strange to have brass cone ( seat/poppet?) sealing on a brass orifice in this type of service. The mating surfaces would have to be in perfect condition to seal well.
Can you get a ID, OD and thickness measurement of the black orifice/seat?

Thanks for the photos. I am pretty sure that I have one or more of those "poppets" in my box of URO's (unidentified regulator objects).
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antique diver
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Re: USD Royal Mistral (again)

Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:15 am

Do you think a regular Mistral body could be modified with a little machining to accept the orifice and other parts?
How about a photo looking down into the body, along with ID and Depth measurements?
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captain
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Re: USD Royal Mistral (again)

Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:18 am

It's been a few years ago when Bryan asked me to see if I could get one to work. I seem to recall the configuration was as Ron pictured. The soft seat on Ron's looks to be in way better shape than the one I worked on. My theory was the soft seat material was being degraded by the high flow velocity. I could get it to work briefly before the soft seat would turn ragged.
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Bryan
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Re: USD Royal Mistral (again)

Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:49 am

This view does not show the sleeve or seat but I know both are there
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Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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Ron
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Re: USD Royal Mistral (again)

Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:32 pm

Gents, I will work on all these thing for you tonight.


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