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Bryan
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Russian Special Forces

Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:04 pm

https://youtu.be/C0IrZqYDLDY

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Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

swimjim
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Re: Russian Special Forces

Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:22 am

Reminds me of the Legends event a few years back. :wink:

crimediver
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Re: Russian Special Forces

Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:00 am

I believe they fire bolts and the range is pretty limited underwater but that is cool as heck and I want one of the rifles.

I spent 25 years on LE patrol boats and often ended up in the water going after suspects and my pistol was often completely submerged. I was a Glock armorer and could obtain marine cups to modify the firing pin to allow it to fire underwater. I felt that if I was in a fight when my gun was wet and I needed to shoot it I wanted it to function.

I took a Glock .40 pistol and put maritime cups that are vented to allow the firing pin to travel down the firing pin channel. The cups are vented and helps allow the water to pass through them as the water in front of the firing pin does not compress and it can slow the firing pin down where it may not strike the primer hard enough to fire.

I never tried it but depended on the prior testing of this modification by Glock hoping it would work as advertised. I have seen the you tube videos of guys test firing the gun in the bath tub and cracking the fiberglass tub and such so I think it would work as advertised.

You need to shoot solid ball ammo as HP ammo could possibly expands in the barrel and might cause the pistol to explode. That posed a problem for me as I had to carry the Ranger HP round but I would just hope it would do OK if I got into a life and death situation and just keep my fingers crossed.

I know I would basically have to be in very close quarters to use it efficiently, much like a power head. But I felt a little better with the modification. Some folks say it is not even necessary to get the gun to fire underwater but without the cups it would become a single shot. it was worth the few bucks to replace mine just for peace of mind.

But in a Thunderball underwater gun fight with Russians their bolts travel better underwater and have superior range and would be superior to a .40 fired from a pistol. They would have an advantage with those rifles.

So, where can I buy an UW rifle?

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lakediver
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Re: Russian Special Forces

Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:10 pm

According to Wikipedia, Heckler and Koch makes the P11 Underwater Pistol. Made in the 70s for various countries special forces. Probably won't find it at your local gun show.

uwstlth
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Re: Russian Special Forces

Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:33 pm

Nice they use a U.S. manufacture's gear (Aqualung FROGS, mask, fins etc...) :roll:

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Bronze06
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Re: Russian Special Forces

Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:37 pm

I got to screw around with an APS back in 1991. They don't tell you in the article below that they have a 50+ meter effective range outside the water. Fun stuff and would be interesting against a shark. Below is an aritcle from Forgotten Firearms.
APS.jpg
APS Underwater Rifle

The APS (Avtomat Podvodnyj Spetsialnyj) was developed in the early 1970s as a way to provide greater firepower to Russian frogmen (who had been previously armed with knives and the SPP-1M underwater pistol).
PHOTO-4-SPP-1-Underwater-Pistol (1).jpg
SPP-1M

It was initially used by Russian armed forces, but has also been sold on the international market since the fall of the Soviet Union.

SSP Ammo in 5.6mm Round at the bottom is a standard 7.62x39 AK round..jpg
The APS was intially based on the AK-74 rifle, but several significant changes were made. It fires a 120mm long 5.6mm dart or flechette, which is relatively stable traveling underwater – it uses a smoothbore barrel and relies on the shap of the dart for stability and accuracy. The dart is fired by a standard (although well waterproofed) cartridge case with powder and primer. The magazine shape is dictated by the long projectiles, and holds 26 rounds.


The rifle uses a gas piston like the AK to operate, but fires from an open bolt. This ensures that the barrel remains filled with water, which is necessary to properly stabilize the projectiles. It can be fired dry above water, but this is inaccurate and causes significant wear to the gun. The trigger mechanism has a selector for semi or full automatic fire, and a collapsing wire buttstock provides some stability.

The APS is by far the most fully developed underwater firearm in use, although it does have shortcomings. The wide magazine profile can make maneuvering in water somewhat difficult, and the sights are simple and crude.

Because of increasing water pressure, the APS perform differently at different depths. As one submerges farther, the cyclic rate of the weapon slows down and the muzzle velocity and effective range decrease. At 5m depth, the APS is considered to have an effective range of 30m, decreasing to 11m at a depth of 40m. This change in pressure also necessitates a self-adjusting gas system, to ensure that the action cycles reliably in different pressures. The notion of designing an effective underwater firearm really bring to light a number of interesting considerations not relevant on normal guns
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"Where'd ya get that ol' thang, don't cha' know them thare things ill kill ya!"

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8dust
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Re: Russian Special Forces

Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:07 pm

Super Cool, thanks for the info, Russ! :)
Freddo
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ScubaLawyer
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Re: Russian Special Forces

Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:50 pm

Thanks for the info Russ. I met an ex-SPETSNAZ guy once in Europe. Nice fellow but you could tell he had 27 different ways he was trained to swifty dispatch you with his little finger nail. He said he had trained with an APS so your post brought up that long ago conversation in my memory.
apsunderwaterassaultriflerussianaction2kk2.jpg
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"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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