Why the freaking out?

[USdiver]

I spent this past week-end as DM, helping a couple of my instructor friends conduct OW checkout dives for 12 students in 55 degree water. After getting them through all of the required skills, I decided to suit up with my Greek made "Spiros" a nylon one-side, farmer john with a beavertail jacket; plus I used my PRAM and then took the newly minted divers on a tour of our local quarry. Hey if you start them off seeing both vintage and modern equipment in use, you can do your part to prevent dive gear prejudice . All of the comments I received from the group were positive ones, "cool wet suit" and "how does that regulator work" and not a single "that stuff'l kill you" comment. Who knows, maybe we will get some NAVED members out of this group.

[antique diver]

On the bright side, I can't recall a single person ever saying anything negative to me about the vintage gear or how I dive. Actually it has been just the opposite, with a lot of people showing interest and asking questions. Well, maybe it's 'cause I'm so intimidating at 5'6", 155 pounds and 64 years old, so maybe they are afraid I'll kick their ass. (probably could too while they are all entangled in their modern oversized/overweighted gear)

Most of my vintage diving has been in Texas at Clear Springs (40 miles east of Dallas), and other freshwater sites, so maybe when I venture to Florida on the boats I'll run into some flack there. I'll be prepared for it, and I'm going to try my best to keep a good attitude and try to turn their attitude around without resorting to violence.

[Greg Barlow]

A wise individual once said, "Better to be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubts."

Greg

Abraham Lincoln, probably one of my favorite people ever.

Ron,

One more thing (amongst many) that we agree 100% on.

Greg

[Nemrod]

I get it constantly. I made arrangements to get in the pool at WSU with my camera so I could work on a few things and they completely freaked out. Good thing I brought modern gear along.

At the company scuba club dive at Beaver Lake one of the "club scuba dudes" informs me that my equipment was dangerous and that I could not use it, so I proceeded to ignore him which only made him more angry. It is the anger part that I don't understand that Slonda is alluding too, it simply makes no sense. I have no explanation.

I guess I am going to Grand Cayman in a few weeks instead of our yearly Destin trip since BP decided to turn the Gulf of Mexico into an oil storage tank and I am curious how I will be received, on the other hand, I may not be bringing any vintage dive gear, I want to shoot photos and travel light but maybe I can squeeze a twin hose in the bag.

You know, I think it is the "safety" aspect that is the tripping wire. No, they are not concerned with your safety but I think it threatens their safe little air bag, helmeted, knee pad, pill for everything little world they live in when some people do not conform. I think down deep these people realize they are artificial little robots doing their little programmed robot routines and you call them out when you don't play the way they think you should according to their little program. Warning, warning, danger Will Robinson.


You know, I get the same type of reactions when people are discussing their ailments and their doctors and they look to me as if they want to hear my reinforcement and my ailments and pills and doctors and I simply tell them, I don't go to doctors and I don't take pills. This does not go over well.

Honey Buns and coffee, that is all a man needs.
Nem

[Skin Diver]

I'd say odds are better than good, all scuba diving deaths and scuba diving accidents occuring over the past ten or so years, involved diving gear considered to be modern or contemporary at the time of the accident!

Scuba diving will never be safe enough and.......hmmmm? On second thought, "all you vintage dive gear buddies out there with a death wish, you need to send me all your vintage dive gear right away to my house.... I'll pay for the shipping or better yet, I'll pick it up myself....I'm waiting by the phone now!"

[YankDownUnder]

It is control too. They have a little niche in this world where they can be in some sort of control. They know what looks right to them and they have difficulty dealing with anything that exceeds their knowledge. Some people think it is unsafe to not have a cell phone, but we got along with them for 40,000 generations.

Double hose regulators were the only way to dive for 25 years and Aqua Lung recently brought them back. How could that be unsafe? The US Navy still uses them. They have been used on the Brittanic, the Andrea Doria and on wrecks in Truk Lagoon to depths over 300 feet. I was watching the Cousteau Truk video last night. They were all using Royal Aqua Masters on the deep dives. Cousteau used a single hose, but only on the shallow wrecks..

Early single hose regulators did not have LP ports either. Many did not even have HP ports. The transition came about because of competition and the eventual need to run accessories. Early divers needed confidence and skill to dive. However, that limits the market. As the less skilled divers enter into diving, safety devices were added to make them up for their shortcomings or at least make them feel safer.

You may recall early scuba ads during the transition time. Men were seen diving double hose regulators, but the women had the single hose models. We thought of the single hose as a girls regulator for some time. That was a time where sexism was more prevalent.

Just remember, if he is angry, you won.

[Skin Diver]

I'm still waiting by the phone to pick up all that dangerous vintage diving stuff........

[Mudhog]

Good luck with that.

[seakrakken]

If double hose regulators are so dangerous, why did Cousteau continue diving them his whole life? Could Cousteau have been wrong? I don't think so!
If Mr. DIR Elevator Diver corners you and starts getting angry then just pull that little bit of logic out of the bag.
It should just take the wind out of their sails.

[Gilldiver]

<<At the company scuba club dive at Beaver Lake one of the "club scuba dudes" informs me that my equipment was dangerous….

You know, I think it is the "safety" aspect that is the tripping wire. No, they are not concerned with your safety but I think it threatens their safe little air bag, helmeted, knee pad, pill for everything little world they live in when some people do not conform. I think down deep these people realize they are artificial little robots doing their little programmed robot routines and you call them out when you don't play the way they think you should according to their little program. Warning, warning, danger Will Robinson.>>

As others have stated, ask back “If I was using the new Mistral, would I be safe?” If they say yes, ask them why?

Over here in the North East it’s just too easy to mess with these types and especially the DIR clones. About 2 years ago I was diving on the U-853 off my buddies boat. I was acting as crew and we had 5 DIR types on board. So, deciding to mess with their world, I bring out my double 72’s with the Sherwood double post manifold with one post reversed, put on my PRAM and an old single hose USD reg, and get the normal comments.

For the dive I checked the mooring, release the cup to tell the boat its safe to let the DIR’s in, then do the full internal tour from bow torpedo tubes to stern. Now I expect to see these guys on the wreck but find them already decompressing! They got in at least 5 to 10 minutes after I splashed and they are on a light NITROX and I’m on air!

Well, once we are on the boat it turns out that they never got more then 50 feet from the mooring point, did a bunch of drills, had great situational awareness of each other, and did nothing else. No penetration “we’re not trained,” no real decompression, “we’er not trained”…….

I just leaft them with the comment, “Perhaps it’s the diver, not the gear that matters.”

[Herman]

The more I read this thread the more lucky I realize I am. The 2 major LSDs in my area (I DM for one of them) are vintage friendly. I have done vintage presentations at both dive clubs- both meeting were packed- and try vintage days for both of them. I usually show my gear to new divers during their OW class to show them than there are other diving gear and styles. Most of the instructors have no problem with my PRAM in the later OW dives. So far I have had no bad reactions at the local quarries, a lot of curious questions but so far no negative reactions. On the occasion I get an unknown instructor who looks a little funny at me as I pass his class on entry, you can bet his class will see me hovering around them- no BC and a DH reg. Nothing like a perfect trim and buoyancy demo to get your point across. As for the horses rear that think our gear is unsafe I either ignore them or give them a little lesson on how little they know about regulators.

[capn_tucker]

A lot of the snide remarks come from people who are associated with dive shops, especially instructors. They want to sell their studii as many new gadgets as possible. Students seeing divers with nothing but a single 72 tank, harness, double hose regulator, weight belt, oval mask and full pocket fins, sometimes causes them to ask uncomfortable questions, like "Those guys look like they're having a lot of fun, how come I need a tank the size of a hot water heater strapped to my back, another tank under each armpit, heads up displays, computers, 25 lbs of weight, and 47 hoses and D-rings dangling off me?"
Questions not easily answered..

[antique diver]

A lot of the snide remarks come from people who are associated with dive shops, especially instructors. They want to sell their studii as many new gadgets as possible. Students seeing divers with nothing but a single 72 tank, harness, double hose regulator, weight belt, oval mask and full pocket fins, sometimes causes them to ask uncomfortable questions, like "Those guys look like they're having a lot of fun, how come I need a tank the size of a hot water heater strapped to my back, another tank under each armpit, heads up displays, computers, 25 lbs of weight, and 47 hoses and D-rings dangling off me?"
Questions not easily answered..

Jim, I think you just nailed it.

[jbrians]

It's only in the last 2 years that I started diving with a new crowd...the "modern" trained in PADI's image, toy for every eventuality diver.
My common dive buddy is a newly minted Instructor and we have gone from the jesting stage to joshing stage in our relationship. She has just logged her 500th dive and many of the last 100 or so were with me in pretty antique stuff in her mind. She admitted that there is no room in the modern training regime for "individuality. NAUI is a bit different but PADI trains "sheeple". It's mostly brainwashing of course but it's mandated by their legal team in my opinion.
It's strange that someone who can rationalise and enjoy there 40 yr old, pre everything (ABS, dual channel brakes, power everything) car for weekend drives, finds it alien that people could also not want to enjoy their dives the same way.
And I'd wager the auto has changed radically more so than dive gear over the same time span.
I also think that many new divers believe that their cert card is actually a government required "license" and not just the self policed plastic id card that it is and anyone doing things outside of their experience is breaking some kind of law.

At least in my experience, the ones who make the most noise are usually the ones who get lost in the silt cloud while us old timers are floating gracefully over head.

[Ron]

You guys all raise some very interesting and well thought out points. I guess that is why we hang out here in our little club, birds of a feather and all.