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georgeaustin
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Voit Avalon Service Question

Thu May 26, 2016 10:51 am

Guys,
I've had a few days off so I've been digging through the gear locker and servicing usuable regs and setting aside a couple for "further review"
Here is a little Voit Avalon that I thought might make a dandy little safe second for shallow, easy work.
When connected to a tank with 800 psi, the IP is a creeping mess so I'm pretty sure the first stage is a goner until Bryan does all the R&D puts together rebuild kits for it - - :lol:
The tilt lever, second stage is nice though and just pristine considering this reg is circa 1964-65. The second does not free flow when connected to a known good first stage with an IP of 145 psi. However, the reg takes an incredible amount of super lung to initiate a breath. Taking the cover off, I note the diaphragm is hard as a rock from age. The diaphragm looks to me like the rubber impregnated fabric we see a lot of on antique stuff like this.
1) Has anyone ever found a silicone upgrade diaphragm that fits in these little Voit seconds? Diameter is 2 5/8 inch (seating recess)
2.) Has anyone ever made their own diaphragms with silicone and stainless sheet / glue for the center disc? (I'd like to try that)

I have the diaphragm set aside right now with a liberal coating of vegetable glycerine on it - hoping to restore some life into the rubber - figure that might help a little after 4 or five days.

The Voit Avalon was never intended to be a high performance regulator as it's MSRP was 37.50 in 1965 - it's more like a little toy for beginners but it sure is small, light and good looking.

Thanks


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Bryan
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Re: Voit Avalon Service Question

Thu May 26, 2016 6:38 pm

What do the parts on the inside of the 1st stage look like?

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antique diver
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Re: Voit Avalon Service Question

Thu May 26, 2016 8:00 pm

I think a Mares 2nd stage diaphragm from MR-12 and the more recent Abyss might fit that. Pretty sure I used one in mine a few years back, but may be a few days before I can get to it to confirm.

email me a reminder in a few
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georgeaustin
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Re: Voit Avalon Service Question

Thu May 26, 2016 8:31 pm

Image

Image

First stage looks exceptionally good considering the age. All we have here is a piston, a spring, spring retainer cap , an HP seat, 2 o rings and two Teflon back up rings. No spring shims. I cant really get a finger into the bore to feel for defects in the HP seating knife edge, but by flashlight it looks ok. The little Teflon HP seat has a well defined set indication but it looks ok. A light coating of machine oil all over everything.

So I think I can just source the o rings from McMaster and as for the HP seat . . . kinda looks the same size as a SP Mk2 but I know its not. I'll just take my chances and think of something later.

I'm going to clean everything up and reassemble and test, then source the o rings from McMaster. -

As for the main diaphragm, I went to Home Depot and found a 1/2 inch X 2.5 inch plywood disc and I'll put a 40 degree chamfer on it and glue a 1/16 inch CS O ring around it when I'm done - that'll give me my 2.625 OD buck for vacuum forming a new silicone diaphragm (and I have 1/16 inch SS sheet from my hobby materials for the disc) McMaster Carr has 1/32 and 1/16 inch food grade silicone sheet. Should be pretty easy - and fun to get this thing running again.

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antique diver
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Re: Voit Avalon Service Question

Fri May 27, 2016 7:40 am

I would love to learn more about how you vacuum form the silicone material.
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antique diver
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Re: Voit Avalon Service Question

Fri May 27, 2016 9:07 am

Tried it this morning and confirmed the Mares MR12 and Abyss diaphragms are a fit. Still available from cooperative Mares dealers, but if you can't find one let me know, and I can probably score one from a Fort Worth dealer. New ones are silicone and should last mostly forever and keep your reg closer to stock. Of course making your own is pretty rewarding too. :)

You can take your orings to a local seal shop for sizing and purchase of a few instead of ordering. Grainger is also a source, with 12 in the LA area. www.grainger.com

There is nothing unusual about the sizes. Seems like the small one is a 007, but don't recall the large one.
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antique diver
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Re: Voit Avalon Service Question

Sat May 28, 2016 9:17 am

The orings are standard sizes: 007 and 019
I have new high pressure seats and orings to fit in case you need them.
That and a new Mares Abyss diaphragm is really all you should need to put it in working condition.
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georgeaustin
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Re: Voit Avalon Service Question

Sat May 28, 2016 10:56 am

Thanks, AD.
I'll see if my local LDS's are Mares dealers. It took me about two hours to build up the vacuum forming frame and half of that was waiting for glue to dry. A shop Vac is all the vacuum you need. Throw a 6" X 6" sheet of 1/16" silicone sheet in the toaster oven for about a minute (protected from the heating elements) put the warm sheet into/under your frame and over the mold - start the shop vac.

I think I learned how to make a cheap forming "machine" on You Tube DIY channel when I was making fiberglass motorcycle parts in the garage.

I reassembled the first stage after a thorough cleaning and connected it to a tank last night with good results. IP holds at 125 psi - disconnected it this morning still at 125 psi. Connected a second stage to it and breathes fine.

I dived my Swimaster MR12 all day yesterday at Catalina and several people were looking at the first stage - shaking their heads. Its about 1/3 the size of a modern 1st stage :shock: :o :shock: = That one was rebuilt by couv about 2 years ago - works fine.

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georgeaustin
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Re: Voit Avalon Service Question

Sat May 28, 2016 11:45 am

antique diver wrote:The orings are standard sizes: 007 and 019
I have new high pressure seats and orings to fit in case you need them.
That and a new Mares Abyss diaphragm is really all you should need to put it in working condition.
These parts, piston o rings and hp seat - I'll bet they are the same as the Aquarius. Something tells me Voit engineers would have just saved money by cross connecting as much as they could with the guys down the street at U.S, Divers. I think theres a thread on here somewhere where someone just threw in an Aquarius hp seat into a Voit Conqueror and it worked fine.

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Herman
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Re: Voit Avalon Service Question

Sat May 28, 2016 1:39 pm

George, most of those type HP seats can be removed, flipped over and reused. Obviously better to replace it but that is usually an option.
Herman

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antique diver
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Re: Voit Avalon Service Question

Sat May 28, 2016 4:02 pm

georgeaustin wrote:
antique diver wrote:The orings are standard sizes: 007 and 019
I have new high pressure seats and orings to fit in case you need them.
That and a new Mares Abyss diaphragm is really all you should need to put it in working condition.
These parts, piston o rings and hp seat - I'll bet they are the same as the Aquarius. Something tells me Voit engineers would have just saved money by cross connecting as much as they could with the guys down the street at U.S, Divers. I think theres a thread on here somewhere where someone just threw in an Aquarius hp seat into a Voit Conqueror and it worked fine.

Hi George, glad to hear your Avalon is working. Also, thanks for the info on vacuum molding.

That hp seat was pretty common size for several brands of regs, fitting the Aquarius, Healthways and more. Probably a stock diameter of Teflon rod. Several pistons were the same size also, but the Aquarius has noticeably smaller piston head, using a 113 oring. It's smaller diameter but thicker cross-section. The piston stem oring of the Aquarius is 007, just like most simple piston regs use. I'm sure there are exceptions, but lots of copying going on in reg design over the years.
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Ron
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Re: Voit Avalon Service Question

Sat May 28, 2016 9:14 pm

I did one of these for a guy a few years ago. It's an Aquarius parts kit on the first stage, and an Aqualung second stage parts kit with a Mares second stage diaphragm if I remember right. Pretty much every Voit reg is really just a combination of USD parts with very few exceptions.

One of these has a really gnarly venturi assist that makes it an excellent breathing regulator. If you open up that second stage and it has a burly venturi deflector built into it, then it might be that one. I did this one, a Dolphin, an Avalon II, and a few others for a guy several years ago.
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georgeaustin
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Re: Voit Avalon Service Question

Sun May 29, 2016 11:24 am

Image

Image

Thanks, Herman and Ron and AD
Correct - I did find that thread referencing the Voit Conqueror. And yes, as you can see in the top image, the second stage has what I assume is a venturi assist plate pinched into the assembly.

Questions:
1.) How did you get at the "seat" on the tilt lever assembly for inspection and (replacement) ?

2.) Note bottom image at 5 o'clock position. . Set screw with spring and seat assembly - drilled and tapped through. HP seat leak detector? Pretty simple but effective way to know when you need to flip or replace the HP seat. Just looks to me like a relief valve.

I can't find in the Voit single hose manual section a cut sheet for a comparable model.
As well, I did check the fit of my nice silicone diaphragm from the Swimaster MR12 (Mares Abyss) as well as the MR12 II and both of those fit.
I've got a supplier here in town that has all manner of Delrin, Nylon and Teflon bar stock in all sizes if I felt like making seats, Shouldn't need to though unless I felt like it. I ordered an Aquarius kit from Bryan.

So that pretty much leaves the only outstanding item on the punch list - that bleeping mouthpiece. This would be the most uncomfortable thing in the world on a 60 minute dive but I like the design and want to keep the regulator OEM looking.
As soon as I get a little time, I'm going to remove it and build a quick little mold and make one or two from silicone which I source from the art supply shop here. I can make them in any color I want!!! :roll: :lol: :roll:

Thanks for all the help guys. VDH is really the most unique website I know of for anything related to this kind of stuff.

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antique diver
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Re: Voit Avalon Service Question

Sun May 29, 2016 12:36 pm

georgeaustin wrote:
Questions:
1.) How did you get at the "seat" on the tilt lever assembly for inspection and (replacement) ?

2.) Note bottom image at 5 o'clock position. . Set screw with spring and seat assembly - drilled and tapped through. HP seat leak detector? Pretty simple but effective way to know when you need to flip or replace the HP seat. Just looks to me like a relief valve.

Thanks for all the help guys. VDH is really the most unique website I know of for anything related to this kind of stuff.
George, hope this helps:
1.) The tilt lever with soft seat may not reseal after removing and replacing it, so if it is working now I suggest leaving it alone at this point unless you have access to a new one. The indentation in the soft material from the hard orifice cone is not likely to ever line up perfectly again, and you could end up with an air leak there.

But to answer your question, the tilt valve comes out through the inlet where hose comes into second stage.

2.) That is an intermediate pressure relief valve. Since the tilt valve is upstream it will not open to relieve too high an IP like the modern downstream valves do. Could blow a hose if the IP got too high if this relief is not in working condition.
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