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luis
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Re: Oceanic CDX5

Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:50 pm

Don't you mean "thaw" enforcement?
antique diver wrote:NEWS BULLETIN....
Residents of the Garret Bay area are warned to be on the lookout for two dangerous escapees from the State Hospital For the Thermally Insane. These men are reported to be armed with large knives and under the influence of alcohol. Do not attempt to detain these thugs yourself, but please call local thaw enforcement Swat Team immediately!
[/size]
swimjim wrote:Image
Luis

Buceador con escafandra autónoma clásica.

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Chris
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Re: Oceanic CDX5

Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:23 am

swimjim wrote: If your into piston regs, go with Sherwood and their dry bleed system. They are good cold water regs and they deliver.

jim
So to go back to an old topic, are sealed piston regs more problematic than sealed diaphragm? The check valve in the piston and relief valve in the body to me look like more things moving. Moving parts means more to maintain or replace in my opinion. But thats just looking at pictures. What are the thoughts of people working on them? Which is better in cold,if any difference?

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Re: Oceanic CDX5

Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:47 pm

tripplec wrote:
swimjim wrote: If your into piston regs, go with Sherwood and their dry bleed system. They are good cold water regs and they deliver.

jim
So to go back to an old topic, are sealed piston regs more problematic than sealed diaphragm? The check valve in the piston and relief valve in the body to me look like more things moving. Moving parts means more to maintain or replace in my opinion. But thats just looking at pictures. What are the thoughts of people working on them? Which is better in cold,if any difference?
To the best of my recollection, the piston does not have any moving parts on it. The device you mention is not a check valve, but appears to be a porous metallic (I think) metering device that is calibrated to pass a tiny volume of air. Anyway, it is pressed into place and does not move. The relief valve in the body is one piece rubber construction, and serves both as the relief valve to pass that metered air, and a check valve to prevent water from entering in case the air is turned off or depleted. Probably not much to worry about if the rubber is in good shape and the proper amount of air is passing out of the reg. I don't recall the time period, but seems like the overhaul specs called for holding a shot glass inverted over the first stage while underwater. It was to fill with air within some set period of time that I don't recall. So add a shot glass to your tool kit, it may also come in handy after the dive.

Although I don't personally care for the Sherwood regs, I must admit they seem to have a good reputation for dependability. Well, I did see one "octopus" second stage get hung on the boat gunnel as my friend did a back roll entry. The orange plastic second stage landed on the boat deck, and the metal parts of the demand valve pulled out of the second stage and went on a nice long dive with its owner. I remember the confused look on his face when I showed him the end of his octo hose at 80', terminated by the exposed demand lever. Still not leaking air.

No real problem... could have happened to most any plastic second suffering from that abuse.

It has probably been over 20 years (and more than a few shot glasses of measuring stuff other than air) since I worked on one of those, so I may be missing something or be inaccurate in my description.... so, as usual I invite any enlightenment on the subject.
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Re: Oceanic CDX5

Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:20 pm

Link to Sherwood Manuals. I think the Blizzard is the one that has the dry bleed system.


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Re: Oceanic CDX5

Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:04 pm

The Brut and the Magnum also have the dry bleed system. The Blizzard has a heat sink in the 2nd stage to up the ante. In my area of Lake Michigan, Sherwood has a good rep for cold water.... and I do mean cold! Scuba Pro earned the nickname Scuba flow for good reason. A great reg, but not below about 42 degrees. Ya'll are more then welcome to disprove that if you like. I suspect that ain't happening though. Lol. Back in a day Sherwood had a stigma of being the K-Mart of scuba. I'm not sure how they got tagged with that rep. I do not dive Sherwoods myself, but from what I have observed from other divers diving them cold.. Down to 35 F, and deep... past 170 feet. They have earned my respect. Keeping the piston dry so when it cools under effort is more then likely the difference. I've rebuilt Scubapro Mk5's where somebody jammed a bunch of grease in the piston area to "environmentally seal it". Are these guys serious?? Under pressure and cold this would only make the problem WORSE! Not better. Dive the Scubapro's in Florida, California and Mexico. That is their realm and they are very well suited to it. Dive them in sub 42 degree water and you won't be a happy camper.

Jim

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Re: Oceanic CDX5

Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:09 pm

How do the dry pistons hold up against a dry diapham in the cold? Not a noticeable difference?

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Re: Oceanic CDX5

Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:28 pm

They're smiling too. SMILING? Just crazy as crazy can be

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Re: Oceanic CDX5

Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:46 pm

tripplec wrote:How do the dry pistons hold up against a dry diapham in the cold? Not a noticeable difference?

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First off, my personal definition of cold water means less than 42 degrees. Above that I have observed over the years that pretty much any regulator will perform pretty well as long as it has been properly maintained and your not breathing harder then the air compressor pumps. My buddies who do rec diving with Sherwoods do not seem to have a problem with sub 42 water. I know of only two free flows in the last couple of years. One was a reg that hadn't been serviced for many years and the other incident happened while over exerting in 150 of water. I had rebuilt the later and tore it down post incident. The guy had it on a tank with 4000 psi in it. The reg is rated about 3400. He did a hard swim from the stern to the bow of a 137 foot long shipwreck and the reg froze and free flowed. I call that operator error. So in short, the dry bleed system does work. It can take a fair amount of abuse and keep on ticking.
If you look at what tech/deep divers are using on Lake Michigan though, you will find that these people are diving diaphragm regs for the most part. Apex is big. I use HOG's myself which is an Apex clone. Poseidons are also in common use as are Scubapro MK17's.
Now, if you want a reg that will survive swimming through a block of ice..... that narrows the field a bit. For single hosers, I swear my Poseidon Exstreams will literally go through anything. I have had the same experience with my Phoenix and my Kraken. You can't beat a double hoser when it's SERIOUS COLD!

Jim

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Re: Oceanic CDX5

Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:00 pm

Good answers Jim. Thank you.

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Re: Oceanic CDX5

Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:10 am

So today as I'm talking regulators with the lds owner, I had to ask myself, why do I sway towards diaphragm first stages? Pistons are so much simpler. The only thing I can come up with is, I like taking them apart.

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Re: Oceanic CDX5

Wed May 03, 2017 8:34 pm

I was wrong this whole time. We all were. What engineers are teaching now is the metal air valve tube on the more expensive 2nd's is to gather condensation to eliminate dry mouth. Plastic regs should not ice because they dont condense as bad as the metal regs.

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Re: Oceanic CDX5

Sat May 06, 2017 11:23 am

Maybe a bit of sarcasm in that last statement.

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Re: Oceanic CDX5

Tue May 23, 2017 7:22 am

This should be in tanks and valves but I had to drop my two cents worth in.
tripplec wrote:Awesome swimjim. I hated not bringing my phoenix this year. But I was using double tanks and I dont want to manifold them because I also use them as my singles tanks. I build a version of the VDH back plate with adapters, so with just two bolts I change between singles/doubles with or without BC. All my gear were fine on the three test dives I did before vaca. Verry dissapointing final dive. I need to do some more reading and figure out a good way to mount my Phoenix on one tank without a manifold. I know the breathing preformance might change, but at least ill be diving with a good reg. anyone have a 3400psi cheater bar manifold like I use on my double 72's?

The best solution I've found for doubles with a DH regulator and a SH regulator. is the Sherwood SELPAC manifold with a secondary k valve and either a J reserve or not. It can combine the best of both worlds. The example here has the J valve removed and plugged. They pop up all the time on the internet and I would bet someone on this forum might have one fo sale or trade. I use one with HP (3442psi, 80cuf. ) tanks and all I did was trade out the burst disks for a higher rating and refurbish the valves (easy to do as there are plenty of Sherwood valve repair kits out there). The picture below has the center valve upside down, but you get the idea.
Sherwood SELPAC with J and secondary reg valve..jpg

Have you also looked into a Scubapro Mark 2, 5, or 10 first stages? They are great cold water regs (If maintained correctly and have the proper cold water configuration) and have never iced up on me, even in Scapa Flow in late winter water temps of 38 degrees F. Granted my MK2 had the environmental silicon boot. They are all over the internet and are extremely friendly to rebuild. You can also find SP environmental silicon containment covers or in a direct S.P.E.C. cold water configuration. The Brut by Sherwood is no "K-mart" reg. They are proven bombproof regs in all conditions as are Sherwood's valves. JMO
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Re: Oceanic CDX5

Tue May 23, 2017 9:38 am

Bronze06, I picked up another cheater bar and have been doing that rout. As far as icing, I have gone to metal second stages. I still use the oceanic first stage since its environmentally sealed and it hasnt been the cause of any problems yet. The plastic oceanic second stage doesnt even go in my mouth any more. Whats your configuration for the mk5 to make it more resistant to cold, just out of curiosity?

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Re: Oceanic CDX5

Wed May 24, 2017 8:03 am

tripplec wrote:Bronze06, I picked up another cheater bar and have been doing that rout. As far as icing, I have gone to metal second stages. I still use the oceanic first stage since its environmentally sealed and it hasnt been the cause of any problems yet. The plastic oceanic second stage doesn't even go in my mouth any more. Whats your configuration for the mk5 to make it more resistant to cold, just out of curiosity?

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For cold water with Mark 5, I happen to have a Mark 5 with the S.P.E.C. cap. I also use a mixture of Christolube and environmental silicon in the cap ( a generous amount around the piston head o-ring and pack the inside of the cap. The problem is that there is no retaining boot (as in the MK 10 SPEC and the 1988 era MK 2's with the environmental boot). With those two regs, you can fill the interior of the cap with environmental silicon and seal them with the optional boot. I dove with a 1994 Mark 2 with the Environmental boot in Scapa Flow. The MK 5 tends to leach silicon through the ambient SPEC ports and can get mucky. Why they didn't come up with a full sealing boot as in the M2 and MK10 I don't know. Here are a couple of pics for comparison. Remember, an S.P.E.C cap could be filled with environmental silicon without a boot. Generally, a regular MK 5 WILL ice up at the temps you refer to, but not so the SPEC Mk5 IME. Remember also that the if you choose to load environmental silicon into the cap of a SPEC type reg you need to check it now and again and never use a boot on the MK 2 or MK10 without packing in the environmental silicon grease. Environmental silicon is very heavy and just acts as an ambient pressure conductor rather than water. If you place a boot on the MK 2 or 10 without the silicon grease bad things could happen such as free flow or lock up as the AP ports would be sealed up from the outside by the boot during a dive.
Main Spring and SPEC.jpg
1988-MK200-SPEC-BOOT-(6).jpg
1988-MK5-SPEC.jpg
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