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Herman
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Re: Titan II

Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:45 pm

An alternative to blowing out the diaphragm I use is to carefully cut an X in the center of the diaphragm with a razor blade. Under it is the pin support, try not to scratch it but if you do, it's not a big deal to polish off any rough edges you made. Once you get the X cut, lift up one of the edges of the X, grab it with pliers and pull the diaphragm out.
Herman

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tripplec
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Re: Titan II

Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:13 pm

So I should not use the diaphragm that comes in the MR12 kit?
Greg Barlow wrote:Herman has given you some great advice regarding the rebuilding process. I would strongly encourage you to replace the HP valve assembly with either an Aqualung version or Mares Tri-Material. I suggest the AL version, as VDH sells them as well. The Mares works too, but requires a custom cut pin to work properly.

If you use the AL version, and your HP balance chamber has an internal, white, Teflon back-up ring then you can use the existing pin. As Herman indicated, replacing the internal -006 size O-ring can be tough. If you like, I can do it for you, as I have the technique down pat. I have literally done it more times than I wish to count.

The second stage does use a Mares Abyss diaphragm. That addition will dramatically improve the reg's performance as well.

The MR12 kit has all of the correct O-rings. You also need to buy a two stage diaphragm that is used on the regs like a Royal, DAAM, and Voit Navy. Yours will be very stiff. Do NOT use a pick to remove the diaphragm, as you will almost certainly damage the sealing surface. instead use compressed air (75-125psi) to expel the part. Careful as the pin can fall out when the diaphragm is ejected. Cover it with a rag during the process for safety.

Just ask for any additional info.

Greg

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tripplec
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Re: Titan II

Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:20 am

so after every ones much appreciated help this is the list I've come up with. please let me know if I'm missing something.
Mares Abyss second stage diaphragm
MR12 kit
Either the high pressure seat or an Aqualung high pressure valve assembly (according to Bryan)
#10 80-90 durometer o ring for the j valve stem (#63 Herman said is the original part number)
#53 nylon gasket for under the j valve nut (I can get this from Herman if vdh doesn’t sell them).

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Herman
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Re: Titan II

Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:43 am

I thought the HP diaphragm was the same at the MR-12 as well...nice to see you around Greg.

The other thing you are going to need is a pin spanner to remove the HP assembly. The spanner needs small (3/32 if I remember correctly) pins spaced 0.800 inches apart. The HP assembly is recessed into the body so your spannner has to be able to reach into a cavity, flat ones will not work.
Herman

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tripplec
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Re: Titan II

Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:09 pm

Herman wrote:I thought the HP diaphragm was the same at the MR-12 as well...nice to see you around Greg.

The other thing you are going to need is a pin spanner to remove the HP assembly. The spanner needs small (3/32 if I remember correctly) pins spaced 0.800 inches apart. The HP assembly is recessed into the body so your spannner has to be able to reach into a cavity, flat ones will not work.
Can I make a spanner tool by filing a socket so it has two points like pins? Hate to be a cheep skate, well maybe not, but if its something I already have and can modify?

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luis
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Re: Titan II

Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:28 pm

Herman makes the spanner tool and sells them for a very reasonable price. They are a very nicely made tool.

Yes, you could make something, but I would recommend getting one from Herman. The cost is very low and having the right tool for the job is priceless.
Luis

Buceador con escafandra autónoma clásica.

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tripplec
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Re: Titan II

Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:18 pm

thank you.

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Herman
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Re: Titan II

Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:20 am

tripplec wrote: Can I make a spanner tool by filing a socket so it has two points like pins? Hate to be a cheep skate, well maybe not, but if its something I already have and can modify?
You could but it would be a real pain. The tolerance you have to work with is pretty small- in the .010-.015 range, a sheet of notebook paper is .004 thick to give you some scale. Filing down a socket will take a long time and be difficult, even the cheap ones are hardened so you must grind it...I cut some down for special uses so I have some experince with machining sockets.
If you want to DIY, a much better approch wold be to find some 1 inch round stock, drill holes the approperiate spacing and insert roll pins into the holes. Again, correct spacing is the difficult part. The pin spacing is .685 inches.
Here is the tool I make- $15 plus shipping.

Image

If you look at the reg in the photo, you can see the recess that the HP assembly screws into. It sets an 1/8 or so below the first ledge you see...that is where the main diaphragm seals and the surface Greg warned you about damaging.
Herman

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Greg Barlow
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Re: Titan II

Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:18 am

Herman wrote:
tripplec wrote: Can I make a spanner tool by filing a socket so it has two points like pins? Hate to be a cheep skate, well maybe not, but if its something I already have and can modify?
You could but it would be a real pain. The tolerance you have to work with is pretty small- in the .010-.015 range, a sheet of notebook paper is .004 thick to give you some scale. Filing down a socket will take a long time and be difficult, even the cheap ones are hardened so you must grind it...I cut some down for special uses so I have some experince with machining sockets.
If you want to DIY, a much better approch wold be to find some 1 inch round stock, drill holes the approperiate spacing and insert roll pins into the holes. Again, correct spacing is the difficult part. The pin spacing is .685 inches.
Here is the tool I make- $15 plus shipping.

Image

If you look at the reg in the photo, you can see the recess that the HP assembly screws into. It sets an 1/8 or so below the first ledge you see...that is where the main diaphragm seals and the surface Greg warned you about damaging.
More than 10 years ago, I had a tool similar to Herman's custom made by a machinist. I wish that I could have bought it for $15! At that price, it is an outstanding bargain. I have various tools and parts that Herman has made for me, and his workmanship is top notch.

Most of my 72 cylinders have a Voit J-Valve installed. Thanks to Herman's efforts, the reserve mechanisms function normally.

Greg
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tripplec
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Re: Titan II

Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:48 am

good to know on the j valve greg, I have a couple on some of my tanks and no one hear claims to know how they work or how to fix them.

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Herman
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Re: Titan II

Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:08 am

To be clear, the J valve seats Greg is refering to were an experiment that I was doing just to see if I could make them, he is/was testing them (nice to hear they are still working by the way). They are not available and I do not plan to make them for a host of reasons. The earlier photos of the seats were part of that experiment which is the reason I happened to have them. I would be HIGHLY cautious of any Voit/AMF seats you may find... the hand full I was given are all brittle.
Herman

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Greg Barlow
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Re: Titan II

Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:44 pm

I agree with Herman's advice about not using original Voit reserve poppets. The compound used in the assembly became brittle with the passage of time. I installed a NOS unit in a valve only to have it disintegrate within seconds. It literally was flying out of the tank valve's opening. Upon disassembling the valve, I found pieces lodged in the interior that were too large to pass through the opening. Not good....

Prior to receiving the hand made prototypes from Herman I removed the compound from the poppet and used them as a non-functioning unit.

The prototypes that Herman created work perfectly, but they are hand made to a specific poppet. The poppets varied in length, and each example had to be fitted in a painstaking fashion. To create them for general sale would be highly cost prohibitive. Herman made them for me as a personal favor, and I am very appreciative of them.

Greg
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tripplec
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Re: Titan II

Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:09 am

Thank you Herman and Greg for all your help. I hope to give it a swim test this weekend. I have the IP at 120 on an inline pressure gauge on the first stage end of the hose and it drops to 115 when I take a breath. The reserve poppet was removed and I see no leaks in my dunk tank with all new o rings. The second stage does have a slight flutter on the hyperventilation test (only one flutter per breath) when I take a HUGE breath but fine on a normal breath. But it puts out lots of air so I don't think I will fiddle with the adjuster screw again now that the band is on and tight. I can't wait to use it.
Image

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tripplec
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Re: Titan II

Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:56 am

Image


My reg worked spot on. And like Herman said the swimaster breathed very nice with easy air flow. I may actually spend the money for a longer more flexible hose for it. and my doubles were much more comfortable with the straps run the same way as for my double hose instead of the traditional plastic tank pack configuration.

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Greg Barlow
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Re: Titan II

Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:31 pm

tripplec wrote:Image


My reg worked spot on. And like Herman said the swimaster breathed very nice with easy air flow. I may actually spend the money for a longer more flexible hose for it. and my doubles were much more comfortable with the straps run the same way as for my double hose instead of the traditional plastic tank pack configuration.
Glad to hear that the reg performed well. When I worked for Scuba Diving Magazine, we had a number of rebuilt vintage single hose models run on the ANSTI machine at Scubapro's facility. The MR12 performed quite admirably with an overall work-of-breathing of around 2.0 j/l at the EN250 testing protocol. While some modern regs can boast a number slightly under 1.0 j/l, the Swimaster example can supply more than ample gas for dives in the recreational realm.

The MR12 series is my favorite, with the MR12 II getting my vote as the best looking single hose model of all time.

Greg
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