Vintage Double Hose

I picked up a Voit Titan II first stage with swimaster titan II second stage. They do NOT say mr12. Does anyone know if the MR12 repair kit on VDH will work?

the first stage seems ok on my bench but I would like to rebuild it anyway the diaphragm seems stiff. But the second stage free flows a bit.

tripplec wrote:I picked up a Voit Titan II first stage with swimaster titan II second stage. They do NOT say mr12. Does anyone know if the MR12 repair kit on VDH will work?

Yes and no.
Most of the parts(first stage)are the same but there are some differences. The kit does not contain a couple of needed orings but they commmon orings so getting them is not a big deal. A USD HP seat will work - same one as in the Conshelf/RAM. The balance chamber was ment to be replaced as a unit but it is possible to replace the orings in it...it's not fun but it can be done. There is one special tool that you need to service the first stage. The HP assembly is screwed into the main body and it reguires a pin spanner to remove it. You can sometimes remove it without it but odds are you will booger up the assembly in the process. Shameless plug to follow....I make the tool you need...$15.

The second stage is easy to rebuild and one of my favorites, I use one on my OW class pool reg. The LP seat is a common one, as is the exhaust valve. The diaphragm is available....just can't remember for sure which Mares reg it fits...the Abyss I think but don't hold me to it - Greg Barlowe is the man to ask.

The Voit Trieste is the same first stage with the addition of a couple more parts so you can use the Trieste manual and break downs for information. They are in the "manuals and catalogs" section of the board. I also have one with many of the Orings labeled with standard numbers (not Voit #). It may be in the manuals section but if not, I can email it to you.

I see you are relatively new to the board. Do a search for "Pegasus", you may find it interesting. It was a project Luis and I did a while back that converted a Titan first stage into a double hose reg. The parts are NOT available, they were all custom made for the project but you may find it interesting and maybe pick up some more details on the Titan.

Herman if you will tell me the size O-rings he needs for the Titan I'll include them when he orders.

thank you herman and bryan. I like the looks of the setup and it was free. any help I get on it would be greatly appreciated as I live in a small town so parts and knowledge are limited. I can take stuf apart and replace orings but knowing what to order is a problem for me. I have been trying to download the manuals but keep messing up. I will get it one of these tries. Yes I am new to this site, I joined when I purchased a phoenix nozzle about eight months ago and have been diving the snot out of it. Thank you VDH. Keep me informed Bryan if you think you have what I need and I will certainly order it.

I may have misspoke. I was thinking the new MR-12 but looking at the MR-12 kit, it appears to have the orings for the older models as well. Specifically I was thinking about the HP assembly oring - part# 10 (size 908). If that one is in the kit, all you need besides the kit is a HP seat. I would also recommend replacing the second stage diaphragm if you intend to dive it much.

One more thing...does it have the J valve installed in the reg??
Some do and some don't. The seat on Voit J valves of that time frame tend to shatter into pieces sending small pieces of plastic into the reg. If it has one, it needs to be removed or made inoperable. You can simply remove the seat from it and reinstall the assembly to plug the hole. It will not work as a reserve but that is better than having shards of plastic wondering around inside your reg.

Come to think of it, you will also need the gasket that seals off the J valve or the plug which ever you have- part# 53. Most likely the old one will work but if not, shoot me a PM, I have a large bag of them.....nothing like ordering a 100ct bag and needing 2 or 3.

If you can't get the manuals to down load, I can email them to you.

Greg gave me the specs on the MR 12 kits. He may may have more information.

mine does have the j valve, disabling it and just replacing the seat would be fine with me. If I could get the second stage diaphragm that would be good to.

tripplec wrote:mine does have the j valve, disabling it and just replacing the seat would be fine with me. If I could get the second stage diaphragm that would be good to.

I may have not been clear with my discription. You have 2 choices, completely remove the J vavle assembly and replace it with the plug that came with some of the models (part# 72 or 73) OR you can remove the plastic seat from the J valve assembly and reinstall the complete assembly without the seat, the J valve will not function with the reserve but it will pass air and there is no chance of loose plastic getting into the reg, you keep the look but not the function.

The photos below are of that J valve assembly. Left one is a replacement I was experimenting with, the next is one with the seat removed (what you want to do), the next is an example of a damaged one and the right most is a NOS one that looks fine but the others that came with it are brittle so my bet is it is too. I was given a bag of NOS seats and tried several of them. All of them shattered into pieces the first time they were used...on the bench thankfully. These also came in a tan/white color that has the same issue. The reg itself is a good solid reg but it's J valve is something to not be taken lightly.

sorry, removing the seat and reassembly is what I meant. So just the plastic seal under the lever I guess is all I would need that goes under the lever to keep it from leaking? And I did finally get the manuals to download. So Bryan if you actually had all the orings and diaphragms and poppets Herman has been talking about I would place an order. I'm going to order some more webbing stuff too so I can redo my double hose back plate a little different.

Just the gasket (#53). You can get a nylon one in the parts bin at most Lowes home centers or shoot me a PM with your mailing address and I will send you a few....no way I will ever use the bag I have. The only oring I see not in the MR-12 kit is #63, the J valve stem oring. That is a #10. Since that is a HP seal,I would use a 80-90 durometer, the one for the piston stem in a Scubapro MK-5 should do nicely.

so I need the MR12 kit, the #10 for the j valve stem, a nylon gasket for under the j valve, second stage diaphragm and do I still need this hp seat you spoke of in this post? I really appreciate all this help I hope I can return the favor someday.

Herman wrote:I may have misspoke. I was thinking the new MR-12 but looking at the MR-12 kit, it appears to have the orings for the older models as well. Specifically I was thinking about the HP assembly oring - part# 10 (size 908). If that one is in the kit, all you need besides the kit is a HP seat. I would also recommend replacing the second stage diaphragm if you intend to dive it much.

It depends.. at times you can get away with using an old HP seat and others you can't. I would replace it or at least have one on hand in case you need it. Since the seat works in RAMs, Phoenixes and other USD regs having one on hand is not a bad idea if you have any of those regs.

Herman has given you some great advice regarding the rebuilding process. I would strongly encourage you to replace the HP valve assembly with either an Aqualung version or Mares Tri-Material. I suggest the AL version, as VDH sells them as well. The Mares works too, but requires a custom cut pin to work properly.

If you use the AL version, and your HP balance chamber has an internal, white, Teflon back-up ring then you can use the existing pin. As Herman indicated, replacing the internal -006 size O-ring can be tough. If you like, I can do it for you, as I have the technique down pat. I have literally done it more times than I wish to count.

The second stage does use a Mares Abyss diaphragm. That addition will dramatically improve the reg's performance as well.

The MR12 kit has all of the correct O-rings. You also need to buy a two stage diaphragm that is used on the regs like a Royal, DAAM, and Voit Navy. Yours will be very stiff. Do NOT use a pick to remove the diaphragm, as you will almost certainly damage the sealing surface. instead use compressed air (75-125psi) to expel the part. Careful as the pin can fall out when the diaphragm is ejected. Cover it with a rag during the process for safety.

Just ask for any additional info.

Greg