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Drado
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Genesis GF100 vs 200

Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:31 am

I was currently in the process of getting a small regulator for my daughter and encountered the Genesis Origin line of regs with 2nds that are similar to the US Divers Micra reg.

What piqued my curiosity though was the 1st stage. From the outside, it looks like a typical flow-by piston reg, but on further reading, they were either the unbalanced GF100 vs the balanced GF200. The only difference it seemed was the kind of orifice used.

(Pic from manuals from the site)

Image

Without having received the reg yet to take it apart, I was wondering what the differences in the orifice were that shifted it from unbalanced to balanced.
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Re: Genesis GF100 vs 200

Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:51 am

I can't comment on the first stage but I have one. The second stages are Micras made by AL and rebranded for Sherwood, there are a few external cosmetic differences you have to look closely to find with the regs side by side. Sherwood however no longer supports them and if you contact them they will tell you about their "trade in program" in an effort to get them back and sell you something new - don't buy into it. They use the exact same internal parts so any AL repair shop should be able to do the service if they do micras. I just took a primary and octo which I connected to an AL SEA first stage for service at a local dive shop, no problem getting it done. I think they are great regs, especially for divers with smaller faces and for travel. My wife loves hers (Micra Adj) and now I have a back up set for her. I got the Genesis regs on craigslist for $50 for the set, including the first stage like you have, they were in almost new condition and it came with a Genesis Resource computer which I've heard is essentially an Oceanic Datamax or Aqualung Matrix, Sherwood no longer supports those either. I'd say if you have a spare AL diaphragm first stage use that instead of the Sherwood piston, unless you want to service it yourself. The Titan would be a good option, later model micras came with that after they discontinued making the SEA (which is a heavy beast of a first stage). That's what I will do with her back up Genesis reg once it's back from service today... great for travel too.
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luis
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Re: Genesis GF100 vs 200

Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:34 pm

Hi Ed,

The first stage in the diagram is the same as some of the Sherwood regulators.

They appear to be similar to non-balanced flow by pistons, but the floating volcano orifice makes them into a balanced piston “system”.

The floating orifice is not really just floating. The orifice is secondary pneumatic piston with the Belleville spring washer (item 10) acting on this piston.

The tank pressure behind this secondary piston moves the volcano orifice to come in contact (and seating/ closing) with the seat in the primary piston. This closure occurs at a very constant IP, irrelevant of the tank pressure.

The system is actually a clever means of balancing a “piston system”.


BTW, the newest Poseidon balanced diaphragm regulator uses a very similar pneumatic approach, but the geometry looks different. The hard seat in that regulator is a metal sphere. The sphere and the orifice are also both moving to come in contact at some mid-point to close the valve and produce a constant IP (not affected by tank pressure).


Note: the non-balanced version may use many of the same parts, but it would have a fixed volcano orifice. The volcano orifice is probably smaller in order to minimize the intermediate pressure swing (smaller orifice reduces the effect of tank pressure change).
Luis

Buceador con escafandra autónoma clásica.

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Drado
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Re: Genesis GF100 vs 200

Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:19 pm

Thanks guys!

Luis, that explanation made it easier for me to grasp how the balancing goes. I broke out my copy of Reg Savvy but couldn’t find a diagram to match the system. As I understand it then, as the tank pressure drops, the Belleville spring moves the orifice just enough the other way to counteract the IP loss that would be present in a typical flow by system. It’s an interesting system, and allows an axial balanced piston design! I’m hoping that the one that’s coming soon is the balanced version.

BigSwell , Thanks for your input on the Micra and Genesis. I did used to have a Cousteau SEA first stage before, and do agree that it was a hefty piece of kit - but after having used the USD Pro Diver (UFO) before that, it was a bit of a relief. I do recall a thread earlier where you were looking for parts for one, and James ended up making a 3D printed cover for you. Would you happen to have a photo of the end result?
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Re: Genesis GF100 vs 200

Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:49 pm

Sure, I tried to upload it to that post but it seems it didn't take. As a side note, the tech that did the service on these regs told me a while ago the purge cover for the Spare Air is the same diameter and has the same concave section for the ring to seat so in a pinch, you could use one of those if your purge cover ever gets ripped, he said AL is no longer providing external parts for the micras, not sure if that is just to them or in general. -Kevin
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BigSwell
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Re: Genesis GF100 vs 200

Sun Oct 09, 2022 1:28 am

I found this website that has a teardown of the GF200 and reassembly in a PDF. If you have anything about the G200 or Origin second stages you can post (manual etc) that would be great. I don't have any info but would like to get the repair manual if possible.

Disassembly at this link (use the arrows in the upper left to advance the page):
https://www.scubatoys.com/servicemanual ... 00001.html

Reassembly:
https://www.splash.co.nz/content/GF%202 ... sembly.pdf

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Drado
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Re: Genesis GF100 vs 200

Sun Oct 09, 2022 2:04 am

Thanks! Bryan also has the PDF format of that on the manuals page as well. Looking at the photos, it makes me wonder if it would be possible to convert an unbalanced first into a balanced one by adding belleville spring washers and boring up the orifice…
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Re: Genesis GF100 vs 200

Sun Oct 09, 2022 6:32 pm

Thanks for the heads-up on the manual section, I just looked and it has what I need.
-Kevin

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Re: Genesis GF100 vs 200

Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:31 pm

Drado wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:19 pm
I do recall a thread earlier where you were looking for parts for one, and James ended up making a 3D printed cover for you. Would you happen to have a photo of the end result?
Sorry I just saw this... There are a couple printed Micra purge covers in the wild now. I would define them as functional, lol. Not super pretty, but do the job and can be printed as needed. The Micra also shares a diaphragm with the Aqualung ABS and LPO octopus second stages, so that's one other part sorted. I have files sorted for printing the purge cover retaining ring and color ring. In my long-term to-do list is exhaust T's for them as well.

Respectfullly,

James

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